TRANSCRIPT Episode 19: Christmas – hope’s arrival

Leah Sax:
At Christmas, we remember a miraculous true story. It’s the story of a young virgin girl who was pregnant, and the fiance who stuck beside her as they travelled across the country, only to find no accommodation. When they arrived in Bethlehem, she gave birth in a stable. The wisest people in the land followed stars to get to the baby and worship him. And an angel told the average Joes, the shepherds working in the field about the baby, and they were desperate to visit. The baby who was born. Was Jesus the hope of the world?

Leah Sax:
Hello and welcome to episode 19 of Delight Podcast. I’m Leah Sax and I’m.

Adam Curtis:
Adam Curtis and this is a season for special woop woop woop.

Leah Sax:
Woop. It’s a bonus episode. Even though I’m not gonna lie, season five is going to be starting in the spring, so make sure you tune in. Adam, why did we decide to do a Christmas episode? Do you have an answer?

Adam Curtis:
Um.

Leah Sax:
Is it because I called you up and went, bro, I think we should do a Christmas episode.

Adam Curtis:
That is the answer. Yes. Because Christmas. Because Christmas is not only a joyful time of the year, but is is a time rich in in Christian history.

Leah Sax:
I think from my perspective, I was just getting so busy with my life, I thought, what else should I do but record a podcast when I’m already really busy? But also, it was a bit selfish because the joy of doing this podcast is it makes me stop and think about the Bible and about Jesus. So I was like, you know what? If I have to spend a number of hours editing a podcast on Jesus, that is a wonderful thing.

Adam Curtis:
Amen, sister. And I’ve enjoyed doing this podcast because you challenged me with some hard questions. And so it meant I had to go and basically WhatsApp all my old friends and Oak Hill friends and be like, help me. And they did.

Leah Sax:
Did you tell them it was for the pod? Adam?

Adam Curtis:
I didn’t tell them it was for the pod. I just proposed the question.

Leah Sax:
Do we need to, like, credit them?

Adam Curtis:
We’ll credit the sources they gave me. Okay.

Leah Sax:
Yeah. And as we have no guests, it’s just Adam and I. Adam, as the vicar in the pairing, I think I challenged you, whereas my strength was Christmas Carola.

Adam Curtis:
And we will move on to that strength.

Leah Sax:
All right, let’s have the little jingle, and then we can start our little talk.

Leah Sax:
I think we have all heard or even contributed to the language of Christmas just being a commercialised and expensive time of year, and it’s especially notable in a time of a cost of living crisis. Why celebrate Christmas when it’s just a time to spend money? Be with people perhaps you don’t want to hang out with? And Adam, after all, isn’t it just based on a pagan holiday?

Adam Curtis:
Classic, classic. I’m the guest and I have to answer the questions. And you decide to start by asking multiple questions all at the same time.

Leah Sax:
I like to challenge you, especially as the first question is Pagan Holiday, which is technically not a biblical answer. It’s a worldly answer. And I made you do some research.

Adam Curtis:
You did.

Leah Sax:
Your UCF WhatsApp group did the research.

Adam Curtis:
And they did do it. And that is something people people say, don’t they? It proves that Christmas isn’t true and Jesus wasn’t actually born in that day because it’s all based on a pagan holiday. And I’m really thankful, Leah, that you actually did ask me this question because it forced me to do some research, forced me to.

Leah Sax:
Finally,

Adam Curtis:
Finally! Forced me to listen to a podcast. The Speak Life podcast on the issue forced me to read the historian Tom Holland and the pastor, Kevin DeYoung, and to. Yeah, to see what people have to say. And what’s interesting is if you want to follow that line of logic, okay, Christmas is just based on a pagan holiday. Well, on one level, you’ve got to decide which holiday you think it’s based on, because actually lots of lots of people want to make different claims. Is it based on some holiday which happened in the middle of winter, to which celebrated like the shortest of day, that sort of pagan holiday? Is it based on the Egyptian god Horus, who some claimed had a virgin birth? Is it based on another god called Mithras who was called the Son of God and the light of the world? But the problem with this sort of line of thinking, and this line of logic, is it doesn’t really hold up at the end if you claim that it’s Horus. The Jesus story is just like echoed on the horror story. Well, the problem with Horus being that he was he was a virgin birth, and that was big on social media a few years ago. Was that actually Horus doesn’t really have a virgin birth story. His parents were like brothers and sisters, and there’s quite a creepy sort of weird story about why his father has a golden penis. Don’t want to say that word.

Leah Sax:
That was you can say that word. That was not the answer I was expecting.

Adam Curtis:
And it’s just weird. It’s like, no, that’s not really the the Christian understanding of the virgin birth. Or you could say, oh, it’s Mithras, because people say he’s the Son of God and light of the world, but there’s not really any evidence to suggest that he was born on the 25th of December. And that’s when pagans used to celebrate his birth. So again, that’s a bit of a strange sort of link. And this understanding. Okay, there was this big sort of pagan midwinter sort of festival going on, and Christianity jumped on top of that. Well, on one level, that might perfectly be true. We don’t actually know it’s true, but it might perfectly be true. But that doesn’t necessarily disprove Christianity and the claims of Christmas. Because actually, when someone comes to know Jesus Christ, Jesus changes everything. He redefines everything.

Leah Sax:
Yes he does.

Adam Curtis:
Yes he does. Actually, it means you. You look back at some of the things you celebrated and you change them because you know you don’t want to celebrate those things anymore. A modern example of that would be how Christians now deal with Halloween. Our secular culture here in Britain wants us, wants kids to dress up as witches and go trick or treating. But we don’t want to celebrate the evil one and witches. And so lots of churches run light parties. Or my church did an alternative to Halloween superhero party. And these light parties, these superhero parties, they exist because Halloween exists and this celebration of darkness in the UK exists. The Light Party then exists because we want to do the opposite, and because Jesus redefines everything now.

Leah Sax:
Love that. Now, before we go into how Jesus does redefine everything, why did we land as a culture, as a world, as a planet? On December 25th as this celebratory day?

Adam Curtis:
This actually blew my mind as I did research on this, and we don’t actually have solid evidence. This is 100% why the 25th of December was chosen, but we do have very good reasons. As a historian Tom Holland goes into that actually, for Jews and for the Church Fathers. This is big dogs in the early Christian world, when we say church fathers, they really valued symmetry in theology, and they saw lots of evidence for symmetry in theology. They saw lots of links between creation and salvation and how these things happened on similar sort of days. And so they came to this belief that that because Jesus died sometime in mid-March, that actually Jesus’s death was an anniversary of his conception. And so if Jesus was conceived in some time in mid-March, well then jump nine months later. He was then born sometime in in mid-December. And so that’s the 25th of December. Was was chosen as a date by the Western Church to celebrate his birth. But by the Eastern Church, it was chosen a little bit later into January because both of them were basing it on nine months after this celebration of his, of his conception.

Leah Sax:
Okay, so that’s a wonderful history of why we’ve landed on this date of celebrating the birth of Jesus, whether or not we know it to be true.

Adam Curtis:
It’s okay if we don’t know the exact date of when he was born, because that doesn’t actually mean that he wasn’t born.

Leah Sax:
Yeah.

Adam Curtis:
That’s true. Here in Britain, like the King has two birthdays. We celebrate his the day he was born, but we actually, as a nation, celebrate his official birthday.

Leah Sax:
In June when there’s going to be sunshine in the UK.

Adam Curtis:
Exactly. But just because we celebrate his birthday on the day he wasn’t actually born doesn’t mean that he wasn’t actually born. He was still born.

Leah Sax:
Yeah, that’s actually a really helpful parallel. The king was still born.

Adam Curtis:
And I have to give that parallel is 100% goes to to to Mark Ellis. Thank you for that.

Leah Sax:
And going back to my massive question that I gave you at the beginning, what if somebody comes up to you and goes, well, it’s all just about presents. It’s about money. It’s about being commercialised. It’s about being expensive. It’s that’s the reason for the Christmas season.

Adam Curtis:
Yeah. Thank you. For now breaking down your mega question to for me.

Leah Sax:
It’s all Right. Thought I’d help you out. Not give you like, a cash to, like, solve Christmas in one sentence Adam.

Adam Curtis:
On one level, I want to totally agree with you. There is something about the way that we celebrate Christmas which is actually quite unhelpful. It is very commercialised. It’s it’s very stressful. And actually, sometimes it feels like a celebration of greed rather than a celebration of light and hope. But that doesn’t mean that I don’t want to celebrate Christmas. When Christians think about anything which exists within creation and thus including the celebration of Christmas, we have to think about it through Christian lenses and the Christian lenses for how we view the world is that everything was created by God to be good, but because of the fall, everything has been ruined. So everything is a glorious ruin, and so that I should expect to see within everything, within creation, part of God’s glory and part of the ruin. So it means when I come to something like Christmas, I’m going to see some of the ruin there, some of the bad stuff in the greed, in the selfishness, in the stress, in the materialism of it all. That’s some of the ruin that is in creation. However, I’m also going to see some of the goodness and the glory of God within Christmas as well. I’m going to see those people who come into church and are worshipping Jesus Christ. There’s people who are coming and learning for the first time about Jesus Christ. Those are glorious things. I’m going to see people who are inviting strangers in their home for Christmas Day to give them Christmas dinner, because they don’t want them to have it alone. I’m going to see people showing great love and service to each other in the gifts that they give each other, and in the financial support that they give to the needy. Like the fact that Christmas is a wonderful time of Christmas appeals, charity appeals. That’s part of the glory of God, which we see within the Christmas celebration.

Leah Sax:
And it’s interesting because we do have festivals and celebrations throughout the year, which vary technically, you could say and not like it doesn’t say in the Bible, thou shalt celebrate the birth of Jesus.

Adam Curtis:
No, and sorry for interrupting you. And it’s interesting within church history, for the first few hundred years of Jesus, Christmas was not a big thing. Easter’s always been a big thing, but it took a while for Christmas to become a big thing.

Leah Sax:
When we were talking about preparing this episode and I asked Adam the question of like, what’s the point of like celebrating things? Because like, these things are true all year round. And he gave me this beautiful answer, which it was really helpful to focus on something in depth, a particular time of year, because we can’t focus on something in depth for like prolonged periods of time. And so we know that God is a God of order. God is a God of structure and a God of details, and we do have a natural rhythm to a year like he created the seasons. There’s day and night. There is order in the way that God created the world, and therefore also for us to have these rhythms of what we focus on throughout the year. That can be really helpful when we talk about Christian festivals. Adam, what are we talking about? Like what are festivals? Is Christmas the most important festival?

Adam Curtis:
Oh great questions.

Leah Sax:
Thanks very much. Like I wrote it.

Adam Curtis:
Festivals are chances to celebrate, and the chances to remember one of the old sort of festivals of the Jewish of year was the Passover. And this is the time where they looked back at everything that God had done for them in rescuing them from slavery in Egypt. That is the idea. When we come to Christian festivals, we’re looking back and we’re remembering what God has done in the past, and we’re celebrating what that is. But we do that because what God has done in the past speaks to who our God is, but it also speaks to what he’s going to do in the future. In the traditional sort of Anglican Church of England liturgy, advent is not. Focus on Jesus’s first coming. The purpose of advent is to focus on Jesus second coming. Wow, that it’s God who has entered the world once is going to enter the world again. And Jesus, who has come once, is going to come again.

Leah Sax:
Can’t believe. Didn’t know that.

Adam Curtis:
That’s because you are a terrible Anglican.

Leah Sax:
It’s because I’m not an Anglican.

Adam Curtis:
You’re the Baptist who goes to an Anglican church.

Leah Sax:
But I know that is true.

Adam Curtis:
Is Christmas the most important festival? I’d want to sort of dismantle that sort of word, important, and be like, actually, Christmas is important and Easter is important. And Christmas speaks about Easter, and Easter speaks about Christmas. And Pentecost is important when we celebrate the coming of the spirit and all these festivals, they link into each other and they flow into each other, and they’re all speaking about what God has done. It is.

Leah Sax:
And so now we’ve landed on the fact that it’s okay to celebrate Christmas.

Adam Curtis:
Amen.

Leah Sax:
It is. We’ve just gone through a brief history, but guess we want to remember what the meaning of Christmas is. And it’s funny, it feels like every church sermon around this time is what is the meaning of Christmas?

Adam Curtis:
And you know. What, Leah? I think our audience has probably had enough of me answering the questions and you having the joy of asking them, so why don’t I shoot this?

Leah Sax:
But You’re like the vicar. I’m just a saxophone player!

Adam Curtis:
You’re a wise, wise woman in the Lord. Leah, what about you? What’s the real meaning of Christmas? What brings you joy at Christmas time?

Leah Sax:
What brings me joy at Christmas time? Thanks for asking me a question. I feel like I have to focus now. Remember my answers that I pre-processed. For me, it’s remembering the hope of Jesus. And Jesus is a baby that changed the entire world. And it’s a time to stop, ironically, in the busiest time of year. And remember that we have a purpose and a meaning, which is to live for the glory of God and Jesus. This baby. We remember the fact that he would grow up to be the Saviour, the man, the Son of God, who died for our sins. And that’s the hope. And for me, I find that joy actually in singing a lot of Christmas carols as a musician. That is why I spend a lot of this season doing those words remind me of the hope that we have in Jesus. I lost my father last year, and so I find that every year I sing the Christmas carols, the words become more and more real. And the great thing about Christmas carols is they just give you the full gospel. They give you the full gospel. So one of my favourite ones to sing is O come, O come, Emmanuel. And the lines that I love in that is “disperse the gloomy clouds of night, And death’s dark shadows put to flight. Rejoice, rejoice!” That’s what this baby does. Is the darkness, the sin, the death is destroyed. Death’s dark shadows are put to flight. They flee and we have this hope. And that’s what I love about remembering who Jesus is. You know, if you think about Hark the Herald, I’m going to give you a little tour of my favourite carols.

Adam Curtis:
Go for it, I love this.

Leah Sax:
Well, I think the trouble is this is going to be on an Aside. Things that I didn’t say in the singing podcast back with Ben Slee and whatever episode that was, is that sometimes we can sing numbly and not think about what we’re singing, but we’re cool to sing to one another, aren’t we? And so when you think about what you’re singing, you’re praising the Lord, and you’re preaching the Bible to yourself because most of its Bible words, these carols, you know, “mild, he lays his glory by born that man no more may die”. That’s Hark the herald “born to raise the sons of earth. Born to give them second birth”. It’s the hope, it’s the joy. That’s what it is. So give you one more Carol.

Adam Curtis:
One more Carol.

Leah Sax:
One more Carol. In the Bleak Midwinter, which is hilarious because clearly in the Middle East, it would not have been snowing when Jesus was born. But theologically aside, it’s that story of what can I give baby Jesus, “poor that I am? If I were a shepherd, I would give a lamb. If I were a wise man, I would do my part. But what can I give him? Give him my heart.” That’s that story of faith is what? No, I believe I give Jesus my heart. That’s what we’re doing. And so those are the truths that really stick by me when I see the hope of Jesus coming into the world.

Adam Curtis:
Oh, Amen. And it is such hope. It’s hope in what Jesus wins for us. But it’s also hope in who Jesus is. This is the story of the incarnation. This is the story of God becoming man. And this means that we are now able, when we look at Jesus to see God. I just love this because creation, we read in Psalm 19, speaks of the glory of God. As I open my eyes and look at the trees and the sun and the mountains, I can see how glorious God is. But it is Jesus who reveals the face of God. Like Colossians 1:15, Jesus is the image of the invisible God. As I’m looking at Jesus, I’m seeing God. And that is just incredible that when I think, okay, what is God like? Well, God is the one who sees hungry people and has compassion on them. God is the one who sees weeping sisters and weeps with them. God is the one who sees a paralysed man and heals him. God is the one who sees us in our distress and the muck and the filth of our own sin and rebellion. And God the Son himself, comes down to rescue us and save us. Like, what is God like? He’s like Jesus.

Leah Sax:
And what’s also beautiful is that he is the prophesied one. He is the promised one. You know, you think back to those Isaiah 9 passages to us A child is born, to us a son is given. Yes, the government will be on his shoulders. Wonderful counsellor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace, this is that baby. So not only does he see us, he is the fulfilment of the promise. He is fully God. He is Emmanuel. He is God with us. And that’s just so exciting to remember that he does see our crying, but he’s also fully God that promised one, which is really exciting. Like God keeps his promises.

Adam Curtis:
Amen.

Leah Sax:
And this is one of the promises he keeps.

Adam Curtis:
These are incredible truths and even as you’re speaking about them, my heart is like singing. How can we remember these sort of truths in the busyness of Christmas? How can we keep the main thing.

Leah Sax:
I think it’s really hard. Listen to the podcast. I think as I said earlier, I think that’s one of the reasons I chose to do this podcast. So we put a little shout out on our socials, which, by the way, every time you send us a message, we’re so grateful. My lovely friend Amy, who’s actually living in the Midwest. Now, what’s really bad is I can’t currently remember if she’s in Iowa or Wisconsin. So forgive me, Amy. And they say as a family, they read each night together as a family and they have advent candles. Lovely Jenny Baker let us know that they, as a family, sing Happy Birthday to Jesus on Christmas morning.

Adam Curtis:
Oh love that.

Leah Sax:
And our Lovely guest from episode 15 on Parenting Lucy Ryecroft. She got in touch and said, Embrace Jesus in all the chaos, I love that. Don’t feel guilty for not doing this devotional or that plan. Just enjoy Jesus and celebrate him at every step. And she says she finds it helpful to have decorations around the home that help her focus on Jesus. Lots of lights, stars, words from the Bible. How else do you say focus on Jesus?

Adam Curtis:
Let the carols do what they were meant to do.

Leah Sax:
Yeah, let the carols do what they were meant to do.

Adam Curtis:
Good Christian carols, they’re meant to tune your hearts. And so let them tune your hearts like, listen to them and rejoice them, and sing them from your own heart. And go to church and enjoy Singing them.

Leah Sax:
Exactly Right and have them as playlists as well. You know, get rid of the other playlists for this little short season and put them on, because it’s really beautiful to be reminded of it. Plus, you get a bonus Christmassy feeling.

Adam Curtis:
And I also want to encourage us to enact Christian truths. Christmas sort of time. It was interesting. A few years ago during the pandemic, I was living alone and it got to Christmas and I saw on BBC their advice for doing Christmas alone. So I decided I’d read it and I found it the most depressing advice because it was all aimed at selfishness. Choose the food you like, choose the music you like, choose the films you like. And at no point did they ever encourage me within this article to think about those people who are in need, to think about those people who are desperate to think about those people who are lonely, to reach out in love and kindness towards people. And yet that is always the Christian truth, because through Jesus’s death and resurrection, he makes us right with God, but he also makes us right with one another. And he calls us to love God, and he calls us to love neighbour. So enact those Christian truths. Think through how can I be loving and generous and kind to those who are in need? Maybe there’s someone I can call, or maybe there’s someone I can support.

Leah Sax:
And I guess the reverse of that is if you’re feeling really lonely at Christmas, there is a wisdom to also reaching out, which can be really hard, like telling someone and going, you know, I’m by myself especially, you know, that is the good, beautiful gift of a church family. Call someone. And if you feel alone in this festive season or indeed any time of year and you know Jesus, the reality is you are never alone. You do have a King you can cry out to and say, I’m sad and I’m lonely. Lord help me. And that is a real truth and that is a changing truth.

Adam Curtis:
And it’s resting in some of those truths. Because sometimes when you’re feeling very, very lonely and isolated and you feel like you’ve prayed and and you’re not really sure if God’s listening or there, I think I’d encourage you in those moments to then open up your Bible. Maybe take yourself to one verse and just reminding yourself who God is and resting in that and being very intentional to meditate upon that verse, knowing that actually it takes time for truths to sink into the heart. We can know them in the head quite quickly, but it takes time for them to sink into the heart. And we wanted to speak into that situation, that there are those people who are going to be lonely during Christmas. But we’re also very aware that there are going to be some people at Christmas who are just going to find this time really hard, because they find it really sad, as you’ve had to go through grief over the last, last few years, what would you want to say to that person who comes to Christmas and just finds it really sad?

Leah Sax:
Yeah. So as I mentioned earlier in the pod, like my lovely daddy passed away last year, I’m very thankful we got to do a little podcast with him, actually.

Adam Curtis:
Me too.

Leah Sax:
But both things can be true. You can be sad and still know the truth of Jesus. And it’s so true that weep with those who weep, mourn with those who mourn. It’s okay to cry and be sad because it shows the world is broken, but it also simultaneously. Shows the glorious hope of how much we need Jesus. It’s okay to be in that space. I think especially for me, last Christmas was the first Christmas without my father, the first year, you know, and I’m still early in my grief journey, so who knows what the next years will bring. Was just really odd. There was a massive hole. We were all together, but there was someone so visibly missing. And so we did the things we do as a family. We’re half German, my mother’s German, so we did our baking. We had my niece and nephew. We had my my family all together. We just talked about it. We cried about it together. But there was a great peace in knowing that God knows my heart and he knows what I need. And I know that a couple of people reached out, you know, especially going, you know, praying for you at this time because it was difficult. But I think you can just be sad and that you can also celebrate Jesus at the same time.

Adam Curtis:
It is okay not to be okay.

Leah Sax:
And that’s also the reality of life, I think, to be honest, if we’re just trying to be perky and happy all the time, when that’s not how we’re actually feeling, it’s not helpful to anyone.

Adam Curtis:
No.

Adam Curtis:
And God doesn’t require us to be perky and happy all the time. He’s okay dealing with our mess and our struggle and our pain. That does not surprise him. That does not overwhelm him at all.

Leah Sax:
No. And if it is grief you’re suffering with, you know Jesus is the ultimate death crusher, right?

Adam Curtis:
Amen.

Leah Sax:
He knows. He knows what death is. And that’s why he came into the world, right? Death has lost its sting.

Adam Curtis:
And Leah moving from one sort of sad and difficult situation. And now maybe speaking to a different person in a in a different difficult situation. What about for that person who is struggling financially and like Christmas feels like a very expensive sort of time might. What should they do if they don’t have much money and they feel like they can’t give any gifts?

Leah Sax:
In that Bleak Midwinter carol, it says, what can I give him? Poor as I am, if I were a shepherd, I would give a lamb. And there’s the lady of Mark 12:41, the widow’s offering. And she came and just gave two very small copper coins. And Jesus says, truly, I tell you, the poor widow has put more into the treasury than all the others. Whilst this is talking about what you’re giving to the Lord, that is what it is about. It’s about where your heart is at. Now Nobody requires gifts in this kind of earthly, worldly sense. That’s the truth. And I feel that frequently there’s that duality of the pressure of others, like you’ve suddenly received a gift and you want to give one, but that also that kind of identity of I’m inadequate because I can’t give a gift, I don’t have the money, I haven’t done this, that, and the other, both of which are just lies. So I think it’s okay not to give gifts, but where your heart is at, how you love other people. And of course, there’s nothing to be undervalued with a kind of creativity of how you choose to, you know, make gifts. Or if it’s a, you know, I’m going to give you a gift of my time, you know, let’s hang out. Let me look after your children. Let me just go for a walk together one morning or one afternoon if it’s me. Because let’s face it, I’m going to get up in the morning for a walk. And also, it’s okay to be a receiver. Be a receiver of the good gifts God has given us. I think there’s also a real practical wisdom call, like, if you’re not financially able to give something that’s not a financially wise thing to do, it’s okay to have boundaries. As church family, what we’re call to do, we’re not called to give each other gifts. We’re called to love one another.

Adam Curtis:
And that love is going to look different in different stages of life and under different financial pressures. Okay, a final question for me, Leah, how can we share the real meaning of Christmas, the joy of Christmas with others?

Adam Curtis:
I think you’ve Hit on that word right there, Adam. It is joy, like it is a good thing to share with others. It’s not some kind of secret that we’re supposed to be like, oh, did you know? It’s like, no, this is a joyful thing and also is who we are. It’s identity. We are sons and daughters of God, and we are brothers and sisters in Christ. So it’s a natural outworking of our lives. The most obvious thing that I do, or perhaps should do, is the better language is invite people to carol services. As I have repeatedly spoken throughout this podcast episode, the carols are full of the Word of God. It’s an easy invite, right? Everyone likes, “feeling Christmassy” and I’m sure your passers will be really beautiful in the way they investigate God’s Word and share it in that time. I love giving Christmas cards that are faith based, that will have a Bible verse that have a picture of something that’s biblical, you know, whether it’s that beautiful kind of wise men scene or whether it’s, you know, what a Christian Christmas card is! I don’t need to describe it to you! But that’s a parallel also of making your language Jesus focussed.

Leah Sax:
It’s perhaps that’s a wisdom call for you, but shying away kind of from the Santa language, from that kind of thing of going, oh yeah, I’m excited for Christmas. I’m looking forward to going to church, invite people to church, you know, celebrating the birth of the king. Of course, I would suggest sharing the Christmas podcast episode from Delight Podcast, but that’s perhaps lower down on priorities and of course, inviting people to church on Christmas Day. Don’t be afraid to invite people. The number one, the worst thing they can say is no. And number two, people like going to do Christmassy things on Christmas Day. And part of that, thankfully still in our country, is going to church on Christmas Day. But as someone who’s quite passionate about evangelism, be who you are with everyone else and who you are is a daughter of God and you’ve been saved and chosen. Or a son. Because I’m clearly a daughter. I’m not a son. But if you’re listening and you’re a son, be a son and live that out with others. You’re not two different people.

Adam Curtis:
Amen,

Leah Sax:
Amen.

Leah Sax:
So this is the time in our episode where we normally have a little chat on what we thought of the episode. Adam, what did you think about the episode?

Adam Curtis:
I still think you’re a very cruel to make me do all the research and all the hard work, but maybe I should also say I’m thankful that you did.

Leah Sax:
You also flourished in it. I’ve learned that I love the Christmas carols.

Adam Curtis:
You flourished, you flourished, too Leah. You flourished too.

Leah Sax:
By what? Researching the carol words I already knew the words to.

Leah Sax:
So our bonus question we’re now going to ask each other. So, bro, what is the one piece of advice you would give a new believer?

Adam Curtis:
I haven’t thought about this at all. Um.

Leah Sax:
You’ve only asked it to every guest this season.

Adam Curtis:
I know, I know.

Adam Curtis:
The road is not the destination.

Leah Sax:
Oh.

Leah Sax:
Look at you and your little one liners. Would you like to expand, or are you going to leave it at that Bro?

Adam Curtis:
When someone recognises that who Jesus Christ is that he’s your Lord and he’s your Saviour, and we’re brought into the new life in Jesus Christ, we can sometimes think that that’s the destination where in reality that is just the start of the journey. That’s us on the road, walking to the new creation, splendour, where we’ll see Jesus face to face and we’ll be one with our maker forever, in the presence of his divine and holy love. We need to know that because while we’re on the road, there are things in life which are going to be hard. Suffering is still going to be real, and we’re still going to be battling sin along the way. Yeah, and if we think that we’re already at the destination, then when suffering comes, we think that God doesn’t love us. Or when we’re battling sin, we think that. That he hasn’t saved us, and neither of those things are true. It’s just demonstrates that we’re still on the road and we’re not yet at the destination. And what about you, Leah? What one bit of advice would you give to a new Christian?

Leah Sax:
I think my piece of advice would be make friends at church. Because when you’re going through your up seasons, your down seasons, your doubt seasons, your hope seasons, you need brothers and sisters who will love you, who will rebuke you, who will remind you of the gospel, and who will be fellowship. That’s non-judgmental. And I think in my life it has been the people that God has put in my path that has held me close to him.

Leah Sax:
Thank you so much for listening to episode 19 of Delight Podcast. Thank you to Adam Curtis.

Adam Curtis:
Thank you to Leah Sax.

Leah Sax:
Thank you. Didn’t prep him on that. I hope he was going to go for it. This has been a bonus episode two season four. I’m very excited to say that we’ll be back with episode 20 in February 2024.

Adam Curtis:
I’m so excited.

Adam Curtis:
And then the next season in season five, we’ve got some fantastic guests looking at some great topics. And the first one is with Helen Thorne looking at mental health.

Leah Sax:
This is Leah and Adam wishing you a very Merry Christmas, a happy New Year and delightfully signing off, bye bye.

Adam Curtis:
Bye.