Leah Sax:
Hello and welcome to episode 33 of Delight Podcast. I’m Leah Sax.
Adam Curtis:
And hello, my name is Adam Curtis and last week we had Ed Shaw talking about the topic of intimacy. Now, I loved reading his book, The Intimacy Deficit, and I loved having the man on this episode even more.
Leah Sax:
Now this week our topic is Spiritual battles (2) because we’ve actually had a Spiritual Battles episode already, which was back in episode 9 with The Wonderful Parsons. Now, that episode is currently ranked at number three in our most popular episodes. So we thought, why not delve into this topic a little bit more with a slightly different angle?
Adam Curtis:
Today our guest is Debs Prisk and she is a women’s worker in Paris.
Leah Sax:
Hello and welcome to Delight Podcast.
Debs Prisk:
Hello, hello.
Leah Sax:
It’s so great to have you. Now I am sitting recording this podcast in London. But you, however sister, are not in London. Would you tell our delightful listeners where you are?
Debs Prisk:
I am in Paris, France.
Adam Curtis:
Our most international guests so far with.
Leah Sax:
Global guys. Now we’re global. And yet you do not sound French. Are you French, dear sister?
Debs Prisk:
Well, I actually have French nationality.
Leah Sax:
Okay.
Debs Prisk:
As well as British nationality. But I was born and grew up in England. No, born in Scotland. Oops. I grew up in England.
Leah Sax:
Can you tell us how did you end up in Paris?
Debs Prisk:
Well, I came to France for the first time when I was four years old, and I fell in love with this country, and so always through school, French was my favourite subject. As I became a Christian, I became a Christian when I was about eight. And as I grew as a Christian, I also started growing in my love for France in a spiritual way. By that I mean I’d always loved the country as a sort of cultural, linguistic love for the country. And as I grew in my understanding of what France was like and what the Spiritual scene was here. It gave me a Spiritual love for the country where I realised that churches were, for the most part, much smaller here, had fewer resources. The country was generally harder to the gospel than certainly where I was growing up in the UK. So that cultural linguistic love became a Spiritual love where I wanted to see French people. One for the Lord Jesus.
Leah Sax:
Wonderful. How did you come to faith when you were eight?
Debs Prisk:
Well, I grew up in a Christian family, which is a massive, massive, massive privilege. And so I think as soon as I was able to read, my mum bought me a Bible. I can’t remember a time when I didn’t believe in God. I can’t remember a time when I didn’t believe that Jesus died and rose again from the dead. In fact, I remember when I was about that age, about eight, finding out that there were people who called themselves Christians, who didn’t believe that Jesus was bodily risen from the dead. And I just thought to myself, like, how can they call themselves Christians? Because like, this is the most important thing in the Christian faith. Surely the Christian faith stands or falls on this thing. And so I remember just thinking that Jesus was the most wonderful person. And from all that I’d read in the Bible, from what I’d learned in Sunday School. And I remember at that age a friend of mine saying to me that Jesus was her best friend. And I remember thinking, wow, I’d love to be able to say that. Jesus, everything that I’ve read about him, he is the most powerful, but also the kindest, most amazing person.
Debs Prisk:
And wouldn’t it be wonderful to be able to say that Jesus is your best friend? And that same time I went to a holiday Bible club at my grandparents church. I think my grandparents very kindly took me and my brother off my parents hands for a few days because their church was doing a holiday Bible club. The good news about Jesus was just really clearly taught there. I’m sure I’d been taught it clearly before, but the pieces just hadn’t fallen into place. And I remember lying in a bed in my grandparents spare room praying that Jesus would be my Saviour. And so I believe that a massive change happened at that point, and that from then on, I have been following the Lord Jesus. I found out that greater love has no one than this, that he lays down his life for his friends. Actually, the way to be Jesus’s friend is to say, yes, I believe that you died for me. I believe that you died in my place.
Leah Sax:
You said earlier that when you learned about France spiritually, it was hardened to the gospel. What did you mean by that?
Debs Prisk:
France is a place where most people grow up not asking themselves questions about God. There was a press article a few years ago that said that France was the fourth most atheistic country in the world, behind China, Japan and the Czech Republic, which means that it’s the fourth country in the world with the highest number of people who would call themselves atheists, and that means that people just have never asked themselves questions about God and will grow up with a default position of God doesn’t exist. I moved to France nearly 20 years ago now, and so I think that actually the UK has changed a lot and France has changed a lot as well. And so maybe they’re actually closer together in what that looks like now than they would have been back then. But it means that people are a step further back about having never asked themselves that question. That question needs to be asked first before you can go any further. That’s looked like a greater hostility to people speaking about Christian things.
Leah Sax:
How have you been able to keep going with the Lord in such a spiritually difficult place, and you’ve been there for a long time now?
Debs Prisk:
I think the story of my life is that God has kept me every step of the way. God has kept me. So even before I lived in France. I remember the summer before I went to university, I was hanging out with friends who weren’t believers and being very influenced by them and probably drinking too much and living in a way that wasn’t really very pleasing to God. I remember even my mum saying to me, Debs, you’re becoming somebody I don’t like very much. And then going to university. And I really think it could have gone one of two ways. I really think that I could have walked away from the Lord or stuck with him, and he kept me. And so I remember just walking through a door in the halls of residence, and there was a poster on it saying, tonight, Bible study, Christian Union hall, group, Bible study. And I just knew that I had to go there. I just knew that I had no choice. And so I went along and I made Christian friends there. And that meant that I joined a church at university. That meant that I joined the Christian Union, and that was God’s way of keeping me.
Debs Prisk:
And I feel like every step of the way in my life, when there’s been something where I’m attracted to a different way of life or a different way of seeing things, I feel that the Lord has very clearly, in obvious ways, brought me back to himself. How have I kept on going in France? The main answer is the Lord has kept me. I think he’s kept me through teaching me his words, reading his word personally, and giving me a love for His word. Psalm 119 says, your word is like honey on my lips. And I like to say your word is like chocolate in my mouth. There’s just a sweetness of God’s Word, the Bible, and that has kept me. The Lord has kept me through other Christians as well. I remember one of those instances where God kept me really clearly. He used a friend of mine who just said to me, Debs, don’t do that thing. Don’t even go there. Don’t even go to that particular place on that evening. He uses his people to keep us.
Leah Sax:
If you’re enjoying Delight Podcast, why not consider rating or reviewing us on your listening app of choice. It really does make a massive difference. And if you’re particularly enjoying today’s episode, why not share it on socials? You can also find us at Delight Podcast on Instagram, Facebook and TikTok. Thank you for being a part of the Delight Podcast family.
Adam Curtis:
When the idea of a spiritual battle comes up in movies and TV, you often see the devil planning world destruction. He’s menacing and he’s scary. And this idea exists within our church culture as well. When Christians talk about spiritual battles, we often talk about big and significant things, important things. There’s meant to be a big evangelistic event tonight, but we can no longer use the venue because of a flood. Ah, the devil must be attacking us. Deb’s a spiritual battle is always big and significant moments.
Debs Prisk:
No.
Adam Curtis:
Tell me more. Tell me more.
Debs Prisk:
Spiritual battles is a language that does sound scary, doesn’t it? And yet I think that actually what it’s talking about when the Bible talks about battles against spiritual powers is just talking about the normal Christian life. And so we actually face battles every single day. There are things that we are tempted to do that are going to pull us away from loving God, loving our neighbour. And every time that we face one of those temptations, that’s a spiritual battle. Yes, the big things are spiritual battles. The things that you talked about an evangelistic event with a massive flood. That’s a spiritual battle. But also, the devil works in very cunning ways and works in insignificant, seemingly insignificant ways, but actually in our everyday lives.
Adam Curtis:
Now, I’ve often heard Christians talk about when we’re in a spiritual battle, we’re sort of fighting the world, the flesh and the devil. Could you maybe define what those terms mean? The world, the flesh and the devil?
Debs Prisk:
When we talk about the world in Christian circles, we do use that term quite a lot. And we actually do it without pausing to think about what it means. We know what it does in the way that we use that word. So we might say critically about society. Ah, but yes, that’s the world’s way of thinking about things. Or we might talk about somebody who’s acting in a worldly way. We kind of instinctively know what the world does and how it behaves without stopping to define it. Let’s try and define it according to the Bible. The world is a collective human rebellion setting itself up against God. We see that in John 15. What characterises it is a hatred against God the Father and His son, Jesus. We see the world acting at various points in the Bible right at the start in Genesis 11, at the Tower of Babel, we see men setting out together to make a name for themselves rather than to honour God’s name. So that’s a collective human rebellion against God. We also see it in Psalm 2, where the nations conspire and plot together against God. So the world is a collective human rebellion against God. We’re going to see the same themes coming up in each of these different enemies. And the theme that will join them together is, is the theme of rebellion. Because actually when we look at the flesh, the flesh is man without God’s man or woman, man living in rebellion to God. Again, that word rebellion, a man left to his own devices without God. And despite what it sounds like, it’s not the same thing as our bodies.
Debs Prisk:
It’s not our outer person. It’s not that the body is bad and that the inner person is good. In fact, we can do good and godly things with our bodies and terrible things with our minds. Rather than associating the term flesh with our bodies, we must say that it’s a bent towards rebellion against God in our bodies and our minds. We’re born with the flesh and we’re born in rebellion to God. We’ll think about a passage in Ephesians 2 in a second, which helps us see actually the way that the flesh works. Galatians 5:25 tells us that when we become Christians, we crucify the flesh, so we’re no longer obliged to live according to it, but its vestiges remain in our lives, so it still has an ongoing impact on our lives, still has an ongoing draw for us, and yet we’re no longer obliged to live according to it. So we’ve got the flesh being individual rebellion against God, which in Christians has been crucified but still continues to work, act. And then we have the devil, who is the father of all of these enemies, Satan. He seems to be a fallen angel who led a rebellion against God. Again that term he appeared as the snake in the Garden of Eden, tempting Adam and Eve to sin. His name means accuser and that’s what he does best. He accuses and he lies. He’s also called the father of lies. So we actually see that these three Enemies have one thing in common, which is rebellion against God.
Adam Curtis:
That is just such a helpful definition of the world, the flesh and devil. And can I, can I just say as a side, I love the fact that scripture just oozes out of you in that definition. So thank you so much for that. The three elements the world, the flesh and the devil, they’re all united by this sense of rebellion against God. How do they work together? Do they work together? And if they do, how do they work together?
Debs Prisk:
They do. And I think we see this most clearly in the beginning of Ephesians 2. And so I think it’s probably be quite helpful if I read verses 1 to 3 out to you.
Adam Curtis:
Oh please. Please do. Just getting my Bible right now.
Debs Prisk:
I’ll actually turn to it in my Bible as well. It’s always better to have the word in front of you. This is Ephesians 2:1-3. As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins in which you used to live, when you followed the ways of this world, and the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. So if we just stop there. The Apostle Paul is talking about the Ephesian believers before they became Christians. So he says that they were dead in their transgressions and sins in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world. And so before they were believers, they used to follow the ways of the world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the ruler of the kingdom of the air. I think is the devil. And so they were both following the world and the devil. It says the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. And so I think we therefore see the world again there and also individuals. The devil is at work in those who are disobedient, both individually and collectively.
Debs Prisk:
All of us, Verse three lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh and following its desires and thoughts like the rest. We were by nature deserving of wrath. The Ephesian believers and Paul himself puts himself in this category. And we can, all of us as believers, put ourselves in this category, say that we used to live among the world and being influenced by the devil in the way that he works in those who are disobedient. Before we were believers, gratifying the cravings of our flesh, that word flesh. So the world and the devil caused our inner rebellion against God to work fully and to follow its desires and thoughts. So the the flesh has desires and thoughts which are contrary to God, and to follow those, rather than to follow God’s ways. The world and the devil operate in such a way that they cause the cravings, the desires and thoughts of our flesh, which are already there to come to full fruition and to work themselves out in thoughts and acts that are against God rather than for him.
Adam Curtis:
As you’re walking through the world, the flesh and the devil, and how they appear in that scripture makes me wonder, do I need to work out which one of these things is tempting me, causing me to rebel against God?
Debs Prisk:
I don’t think that we do. I think that what we see in Ephesians 2 is that they really act together. Now, I think it’s helpful for us to know that they’re all acting. And I think sometimes we’re going to see very clearly, oh, this is the world acting here. So, for example, if you’ve got a colleague at work who’s trying to say to you, it doesn’t really matter if you fiddle your expenses or it doesn’t really matter, you don’t have to act that way. That is a bit kind of old fashioned and whatever. Just just do what you want. And we can see how that would be clearly the world’s voice speaking. Or we might have particular individual things, individual weaknesses. And I think we’ll come on and talk about that later on. But we might recognise that that’s the vestiges of the flesh within us wanting to pull us away from God. But I don’t think we necessarily need to work out which one is speaking, which one is working, because actually, Ephesians 2:1-3, shows us that it’s often just a mix of all of them. We might hear a friend’s voice speaking in worldly terms, saying, it doesn’t really matter the way that you behave. Just be true to yourself. And at the same time, that causing something within us to go, oh yeah, I really want to do that thing. That wouldn’t be honouring to God. But I don’t think we need to necessarily work out who is speaking, but we do need to work out what they’re trying to do together. And what they’re trying to do together is to stop us loving God with all of our hearts and minds, souls and strength, and to stop us loving our neighbour as ourself.
Adam Curtis:
Life is busy. Life is full. This all sounds sounds pretty serious. Like serious sort of stuff. And actually, do I have enough time to be thinking through what’s that voice saying? And what’s the origin of that voice? And that colleague at work, when life is so busy and so full? How do I actually have the time for something like this?
Debs Prisk:
We really need to be taking it seriously because as we said at the start, life as a Christian is a life of battle. I actually think that life in this world is a life of battle. And actually, before we become Christians, the Bible says that we’re enemies of God. And so actually, there’s a battle going on there. And when we become Christians, we have new enemies. We have the wonder of knowing God. And so we know the one who is the greatest. We know the one who is victorious. And yet we take on his enemies as our enemies. And so life is a life of battle in this world. And I don’t want to sound too sensationalistic about that. At the same time, I want to say this is serious, and also this is normal. It’s not scary. It’s just normal life. But life is a life of battle. God has redeemed us. Redeemed us, means he’s set us free. We saw that there was the power of these different enemies that were working in us. God has set us free from that to live lives that are pleasing to him. And this trio of enemies the world, the flesh and the devil. They’re out to stop us doing that. And they also want us to stop people hearing and responding to the gospel, which is the thing that people need more than anything else. We don’t have a choice about this. I mean, we’ve described it in a way of we might be listening to this person speaking and trying to work out who’s speaking. It doesn’t take a lot of time to do all of that. And actually, this is the kind of conversation that’s going on in our heads all of the time, probably without us realising it. So it’s not something that’s necessarily going to take time, but it is massively, massively important.
Adam Curtis:
So I’m taking it seriously. I’m acknowledging that this spiritual battle is a part of everyday life. What should I do in response when I recognise their voices?
Debs Prisk:
Yeah, we’ve been talking a lot about voices, haven’t we? And obviously we’re not talking about voices that we necessarily hear in our ears, but thoughts that cross our mind or other people’s voices that are spoken to us. A major thing that we can do in response is to listen to a different voice. And so we’ve been talking about the rebellion that the world, the flesh and the devil are trying to bring about against God. What we need, instead of listening to their voices is to listen much, much more to the voice of Jesus. In John ten, Jesus talks about the fact that we are sheep who recognise the voice of the shepherd, and the shepherd is him himself, the Lord Jesus. And this is massive to listen to his voice. We recognise his voice from the point that we become Christians. We recognise that his voice is the truth, and so we need to make sure that we’re hearing his voice more often than we hear other voices. I like to talk about hearing the voice of the shepherd commander. Now, obviously there are lots of ways that we can talk about Jesus. Jesus is our King. That’s the language that the Bible uses the most, and Jesus Christ, the Anointed one, the King. But I like talking about him in terms of the commander, because it reminds us that we are in a spiritual battle, but that he’s not like a scary sergeant major. But the way that he leads us is as a shepherd. We hear his voice and we follow his voice. And so what do we do in response? We need to make sure that we’re hearing his voice more than we’re hearing any other voice. That’s just massive. We need to we need to be hearing his voice daily.
Adam Curtis:
Can I just say what an incredible image of Christ we are given there? The shepherd commander. He is the leader. He is the king. He is the ruler. He is the one. But he does that it as a shepherd who’s gently guiding and protecting his sheep from the wolves. You spoke there about the need to hear his voice. Can you maybe just unpack that a little bit? What does that actually look like? To listen to his voice?
Debs Prisk:
The main place that we hear the shepherd commander speak is in the Bible. Now, that is when we read the Bible on our own. But it also looks like. And we mustn’t forget this when we hear His Word taught at church on a Sunday, and where we hear His word talk with other people that we can then talk to about what we’ve heard afterwards. We hear his voice every time we hear His word preached. When we hear His word preach faithfully, I should say we hear his voice when we speak to one another. In Ephesians 4, Paul talks about speaking the truth in love to one another. And I think what he’s talking about is reminding one another of the good news of Jesus, which we need. As Christians, we often think that the gospel is something that we need to hear in order to become Christians. But then we don’t need it after that. And actually, as Christians, we need to hear the gospel every day. When we remind one another of the good news about Jesus. We’re hearing the shepherd’s voice.
Adam Curtis:
Yes. Amen. Sister. We need the shepherd commander’s voice. We need it individually as we’re reading his word. We need it collectively in church. I love that this is a team game. Don’t fight this fight alone. It’s pushing us, this sense of fighting the flesh, the world and the devil. If it’s about listening to our Shepherd commander’s voice, there’s our response change based on on which of these elements we’re fighting.
Debs Prisk:
I think that our way of fighting doesn’t really change, but I think that we have a different attitude nonetheless towards these different enemies because they are different. We don’t necessarily need to work out which one is specifically Talking at a particular moment, but we do need to have different attitudes towards them when it comes to the devil. Ephesians 6, which is the classic passage on on spiritual battles, which we haven’t really touched on. In that passage, Paul says that we need to stand firm against the devil’s schemes. We can’t defeat the devil. We actually know that the devil has already been defeated at the cross, and that he is going to be finally dealt with when Jesus returns. But we can’t defeat him. And so what we can do is we can stand firm against him when it comes to the world, our attitude needs to be a bit different. In 1 John 2:15, John says, do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, love for the father is not in them. And so our attitude to the world is to say, I don’t want to be following it and I don’t want to be loving it, and I don’t want to be walking in its ways because it’s going to be pulling me with all sort of shiny, spectacular things to love its ways. And actually what I need to do is to not love it, but to love God instead.
Debs Prisk:
And then when it comes to the flesh, the flesh has already been crucified. When we put our trust in Christ so it no longer controls us, we no longer have to follow the flesh. That’s the big difference that Paul’s talking about in Ephesians two when he says, you used to walk in this way, but he’s talking to the Ephesian believers who no longer walk in that way. They don’t have to follow the flesh. But at the same time, Romans 8 talks about by the spirit putting to death the misdeeds of the body. I don’t think he’s saying again that the body, the physical body, is bad and that the inner person is good. I think he’s saying that actually the flesh, he talks about the flesh just before that. This rebellion against God often plays itself out in the things that we do with our body. But the language is put to death, the misdeeds of the body. But we do that by the spirit. But it’s more violent language. It’s more aggressive language than we have against the devil or we have against the world. So I think we do need to have a different attitude towards them. And we know that in particular against what’s going on within us in our own flesh. That’s where we need to be the most aggressive.
Adam Curtis:
Okay, Debs, if that should be our attitude, how can we be praying about this?
Debs Prisk:
The wonderful thing is that Jesus gives us a prayer that I think we should be praying probably every day, which is the Lord’s Prayer. And within that he says, lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil, which is a wonderful prayer. And I think I’ve just recently realised one, that I actually don’t pray very much. And so our first prayer should be that to the extent that we possibly can, that we avoid temptation. Now, God doesn’t tempt us. God never tempts us. James one tells us that when we pray, lead us not into temptation. I think what we’re praying is do not let me be led into temptation. Please, Lord, might I be able to avoid temptation wherever possible? So that’s the first part of the prayer. And we can pray. Protect me from temptation today. Protect me from circumstances where I’m going to be tempted to follow the world’s ways, or follow my own desires, rather than following you. So that’s the first thing that we can be praying. And then the second part of the prayer is but deliver us from evil. Now that can also be translated deliver us from the evil one. And so it could be talking about the devil deliver us from the enemy. But it can also be more generally deliver us from evil. And so when we’re in situations where we are tempted in that situation, help us to stand firm. Help us to stand strong. Help us to say no. Help us to put to death this misdeed of the body. Prayer is just a wonderful resource. And I think that in the Lord’s Prayer, because Jesus says, give us today our daily bread. I think he’s saying that we should be praying daily, and that we daily need to be praying, that we daily need to be praying that we’d be protected from temptation, but that when it comes along that we would be standing firm.
Adam Curtis:
Okay. So let’s let’s now make this practical. How can I actually recognise that the flesh, the world and the devil are attacking me, that I’m in this fight because I’m assuming they’re going to be enticing. I’m assuming it’s going to be things that I might want. I’m assuming sometimes it will just feel really easy. If this is a normal, everyday thing, how can we recognise that these things are attacking us?
Debs Prisk:
We’re all unique individuals, and there are going to be unique battles for each of us as we grow as Christians, we need to grow also in knowing ourselves. I’m not talking about in a kind of navel gazing way, but in a way where we helpfully recognise what are our own weaknesses. We see it where we recognise that we’re often falling into disobedience against God. There might be particular sin patterns in our lives. There might be particular thoughts that we struggle with. Just a personal example. I struggle a lot with anxious thoughts, and I have learnt over the years and actually in some ways really very recently, you know, after being a Christian over 30 years, I’ve learnt that what the voices that I’m hearing and again, I’m not talking about audible voices, but the thoughts that I’m having, they just don’t sound like Jesus’s voice. They just don’t sound like the voice of the shepherd commander. They sound like voices that are telling me that God is not good. They sound like voices that are telling me. You know, I said about a scary sergeant major that God is like a scary sergeant major. Rather than being a gentle shepherd who is leading me, I recognise that those voices are not the God of the gospel, and it’s not the gospel that I’m hearing. As we grow as Christians, we need to be able to learn the things that are weaknesses for us and that are going to be particular battles for us. And as you say, that might often be things that are alluring to us, but that we know just don’t honour God’s. Yeah. As we grow, we will see those things more and more, and we need to be aware of those, because that’s where the real battle is going to be happening.
Adam Curtis:
As you’re being honest, it was making me reflect about where I feel that some of the spiritual battles in my own life, and I think about it in my my fight with lust over many, many years. And it’s interesting when I’m reflecting on my fight with lust, I repent to the Lord and say, sorry about it, but then I seem to find myself in that situation the next day and I just feel overwhelmed by it. In recent years, other people have helped me see that actually the flesh the world and the devil is attacking me in that moment of fighting lust. But actually, he’s already been attacking me all throughout the day and that can come in different ways. It might be through prompts which are seen in the media, but it can also just be through the rhythms of my day. Like if I’ve literally set up my day that all I’m doing, I’m working really hard during the day. I rush home, have a quick bite to eat, and then I rush out to work again and I just feel exhausted and frustrated by life that actually he’s he’s even using those sort of rhythms to undermine me so that when I put my head on the pillow, I’m just overwhelmed and frustrated. I just have found it so helpful to think of it as an individual. I need to have healthy patterns in life of healthy rest and healthy time with words. As an individual, I need to think through okay, there’s going to be certain TV shows I’m just not going to watch, even if every single body else is. And even if this is 100% the show I love, it is. Yeah, that learning about ourselves and then through learning about ourselves, coming to Christ and and experiencing the work of His Spirit in us has been such an encouragement to me.
Debs Prisk:
Yeah, it’s absolutely fundamental, isn’t it? When we see things that keep on coming up in our lives, to be able to think back over the course of the day, actually, what are the things that have led me to that point? Because often it’s not a big thing, as you say. Often it’s small things, and often we can see those things repeating, and it’s there that the real battle is taking place.
Leah Sax:
Debs and Adam, it’s been so helpful to hear how you honestly struggle and what that looks like to fight that. How do we stand well with others, Debs, who are struggling with these things as well.
Debs Prisk:
I think that the first way that we stand well with others is knowing others. In order to stand with other people, we have to know them well, and we have to know what battles they’re facing. I don’t think we should be doing that with everybody. I don’t think that we need to be speaking on the same level with everyone. There might be some things that it would be appropriate to share in a big group, and other things that would be appropriate to share in a small group Bible study and then other things again, that it would be appropriate to share with 1 or 2 brothers if we’re a man, sisters if we’re a woman, or with your husband or wife if you’re married, and having that accountability structure where somebody else knows the things that we struggle with, they can say to us when we know that we’ve got a day coming up where we know that we’re going to cross the paths of things that are going to be difficult for us. We can ask them to pray alongside us, and we can ask them to ask us at the end of the day, how did it go? But that only happens when we know one another well. My big encouragement, always for brothers and sisters in Christ, is to know other brothers and sisters well enough that we can be having these conversations with one another. The Lord Jesus doesn’t leave us on his own. He gives us His Spirit, but he also gives us one another in the body of Christ. And he wants us to stand together as soldiers, standing side by side, not on our own. If listeners don’t have people like that, I’d encourage them to try and find them. You ask the question at the beginning, Leah, of what are the things that the Lord has used to keep me following him? And I said, he uses his people to keep us, and it’s absolutely essential. It’s absolutely essential.
Adam Curtis:
It is essential, isn’t it? We do need brothers and sisters in Christ who are going to be cheering us on and are going to be helping us listen to the voice of the shepherd commander. Now, I know you’ve already really helpfully, Debs spoken about how we listen to the voice of the shepherd commander, but are there any other practical insights you want to give us on that?
Debs Prisk:
As we said earlier on, we want to make sure that we’re hearing the voice of the shepherd commander more than we are hearing other voices. And the other voices are going to be there every single day. So I think that means we need to be making sure that we’re exposing ourselves regularly to the voice of of Jesus. I think we need to be going to church regularly to hear his Word being taught. I think we need to listen carefully when the word is being taught. I know myself I can find it very easy to switch off in a sermon. I know that if I don’t have a notebook with me taking notes, that I’m going to switch off really quickly. And so actually, for me to listen carefully to his voice, I need to have a notebook with me. I need to make sure that I’m not following along in the Bible on my telephone, because that will mean that I will check my WhatsApp rather than reading the Bible. So I need to have a paper Bible. I need to have a paper notebook that’s going to look different for different people.
Debs Prisk:
But that for me, listening carefully to his voice in preaching is that it’s also talk to brothers and sisters in Christ afterwards about the things that we’ve heard and about the way that applies to our lives. I think it looks like reading our Bibles daily, if we can. We’re not saved by reading our Bibles, but we do need to be regularly exposing ourselves to the Shepherd commander’s voice. So we want to be regularly in the Bible. I think we need to be developing habits of prayer as we talked about. Lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. Maybe having a structure where we can have that time of accountability a bit more formally, a prayer triplet. For example, a group of people that we meet regularly with. And you don’t need to be talking about serious, intense things all the time. The best prayer triplets are ones where you can also have a laugh and have fun together, and that also helps you to get to know one another better and to be more open about your struggles.
Adam Curtis:
I realise now the question which I’d been prepared to ask you, Debs, doesn’t quite flow because I was going to say this all sounds pretty scary, but actually that beautiful list of prayer triplets which are laughing together doesn’t sound scary at all. It sounds absolutely delightful. But maybe, maybe linking back to some of the earlier sort of themes, the sense that we’re fighting the flesh, the world, the devil, the fact, the significance of this, that actually these elements are causing a rebellion against our good and loving God. And actually, we’ve got to take this seriously now. That stuff is scary. Do we need to fear these things if we want to take it seriously? Do we also need to fear them?
Debs Prisk:
No, we don’t need to fear them. And the reason that we don’t need to fear them is because Jesus is with us. Psalm 23. It says, even though I walk through the darkest valley, I will fear no evil, for you are with me. Your rod and your staff, they comfort me. Jesus is with us every single day. There’s nowhere where we can walk that he won’t be. He will be with us. And so his rod and his staff, they comfort us. His presence comforts us. We don’t need to fear.
Leah Sax:
Deb spoke so beautifully on what is such a complex topic. But the thing that really spoke out to me is who is the voice that you’re listening to in your head? Is it the voice of your shepherd, commander? And I’ve honestly never thought, is that the voice of Jesus, or is that not that I’m hearing or speaking to myself or my heart or my spirit? What’s going on there? And that discernment was just such wisdom that I’m going to hold on to forever.
Adam Curtis:
Yes. Amen. It was so beautiful, wasn’t it? And you’re only going to know if it’s the voice of your shepherd, commander of your heart. Your mind is saturated in God’s Word. And the bit which really encouraged me was how Deb was talking about how this is just totally normal. This life is a fight against the flesh, the world and the devil, and that is just totally normal. So we shouldn’t be surprised about it. We should take it seriously. And it was interesting how she was saying that. That actually reminded me of a beautiful episode we had on forgiveness with your wonderful dad, Leah, and he was just speaking about how actually the Christian life is the normal life. This is reality. There’s nothing strange going on here. And then thinking about today’s episode. Nothing’s strange when we talk about fighting sin, the world and the devil.
Leah Sax:
Now I realise this season’s bonus question you have beautifully already dipped into in your wonderful episode. Thank you so much, Debs, but can you tell us about a person God has used to shape your faith?
Debs Prisk:
There are so many people that God has used to shape my faith that it is difficult to think of just one person, but I remember a dear housemate of mine who, when I was working as a lawyer, we didn’t talk about that, did we? The fact that I used to be a lawyer in London.
Leah Sax:
Oh my goodness.
Debs Prisk:
But when I was working as a lawyer in London. She was my housemate and she would make me a cup of tea every evening when I got home from work and we would just talk through the day, and she was actually the person who said to me, Debs, don’t even go to that place. And it was some of the most precious times I get home from work, sometimes at like ten, 11:00 at night, we would chat through the day and we would just talk about the things that the Lord had shown us, and it was very, very precious.
Leah Sax:
Thanks so much to Debs Prisk for being our guest on episode 33 of Delight Podcast. Next week our guest is Jonathan Burrows, and he is going to be bringing us knowledge and wisdom. On the topic of wisdom. This is Leah and Adam delightfully signing off. Bye bye.
Adam Curtis:
Goodbye.
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