TRANSCRIPT Episode 25: God’s Will – holy guidance

Leah Sax:
Hello and welcome to episode 25 of Delight Podcast. I’m Leah Sax.

Adam Curtis:
Hello, and I’m Adam Curtis and this is the start of season six and it is so exciting. Woohoo! Indeed!

Leah Sax:
I like that every season we’re like, we can’t believe we’re still here!

Adam Curtis:
I was actually holding myself back from saying that, but now it’s happened anyway. But as we’re recording this, our Spotify Wrapped stats came out and Spotify Wrapped has informed us that apparently our creative personality is the explorer, which I just feel makes us sound a lot more like edgy than we probably actually are.

Leah Sax:
I think also because the image that little Spotify PR came up with was some kind of like mountainous crystal foil thing. So we’re like, somehow changing the universe or something.

Adam Curtis:
So yeah. So welcome. Come and join us in the Delight Podcast family and join the adventure.

Leah Sax:
Join. Join the adventure. That’s our new tagline. The other thing that absolutely tickled me was the top other podcasts that our listeners listened to. Number one is Off Menu with Ed Gamble and James Acaster. No idea what that one is. Number two. The rest is history.

Leah Sax:
I really love that one.

Adam Curtis:
Now, number three, I have not listened to, but I feel now I’ve got new fodder for my podcast drives, which is morbid, which is a true crime podcast I am. I love true crime. It’s what I listen to the most. Apart from obviously DelightPodcast.com available wherever you find your podcasts. But I love that there’s quite a mixed batch of listeners.

Adam Curtis:
It was also fascinating to see that the most popular episode for last year was the Mental Health episode, which was an absolutely beautiful and such a such a helpful episode.

Leah Sax:
Yeah, that was episode 20 with the lovely Helen Thorne. But back to today. Episode 25. Our first one of season six. We have the lovely Jubi da Silva with us. He is the international training director for Christianity Explored. He also has a new podcast which is called Abouthim.Co.uk. So support other podcasts. Go and find them. Today our topic is God’s Will. Now looking at God’s will is a huge topic, but we’re just going to focus in on a slightly smaller subsection looking at God’s guidance in our lives.

Adam Curtis:
Hello and welcome to the episode Jubi.

Jubi Da Silva:
Hello, hello hello hello, hello.

Adam Curtis:
Oh, what a what a start. What a wonderful musical start.

Jubi Da Silva:
It’s the nursery rhyme. You know the nursery rhyme. I have young kids and I listen to it. And if you say hello, it triggers the song. Hello, hello, hello, hello, hello. Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you. Say hello. Leah. You’re going to cut that?

Adam Curtis:
This is such an education. Well, we’ve now already discovered our first thing about JB that he’s a father of two little girls. Jubi, tell me. Tell me a little bit more about yourself. Give me. Give me that 3 second introduction.

Jubi Da Silva:
I’m from Brazil. Hence the charming Latin accent you hear.

Adam Curtis:
We hear it. We hear it.

Leah Sax:
we are charmed.

Jubi Da Silva:
Thank you very much. I need all the sort of affirmation you can give me. So keep coming, keep going. I’m married to a British. Well, I don’t have to say she’s British. We are in the UK. But I say that. I say that everywhere I travel. Anyways, I’m married to Annie. We have two girls. One is three. She’s Arabella and the other is one. That’s Beatrice. And we live in a village near reading. I work for Christianity, Explored Ministries as training director. It’s a lot of fun. I get to travel. I get to to train vicars and pastors and leaders to use our resources. And that’s what I do.

Adam Curtis:
Jubi, can you tell us how you came to know the Lord?

Jubi Da Silva:
My parents were Roman Catholic, and they took me to church as a very young child. But they heard the gospel in a Baptist Church. Then they took me there, and I still remember walking into the church and not seeing the images, not seeing Christ on the cross and being really underwhelmed. I have to say, thinking, this is not a church. This is like a warehouse and people sit here. But then the gospel was preached. But as it happens to so many, I left the Lord. I left the church, age 16, came back to Christ in Toronto, Canada, where I lived with my brother doing undergrad studies, and I was baptised in the waters of Toronto Island during Brazil Fest, which is like a carnival happening on the island. I was turning my back to the carnival, literally, and turning my face to Christ, following him from that moment on.

Adam Curtis:
And so what happened? What drew you to that moment where you wanted to be baptised?

Jubi Da Silva:
Well, after living away from Christ for what, almost ten years, I had this nagging sensation that I was going to fail as a human being. Fail as a professional. Fail as a husband, a father. I just knew no matter what I did, I just felt like I need to turn back to God. And indeed, things started going wrong for me in Toronto. I understood God’s calling me back. I need to go back to God. I am going to miss out on life. And I did.

Adam Curtis:
So at that carnival. You decided you wanted to go back to the Lord. Tell us about life since then. Like, how has the Lord been changing you since that day?

Jubi Da Silva:
Oh my word. The moment I got baptised and I returned to my flat in Toronto, I opened the word in Matthew. Matthew 12. If I recall the parable of the hidden treasure. Matthew 13. The kingdom of God is like treasure hidden in a field. When a man found it, he hid it again. And then in his joy went and sold all he had and bought that field. And that verse the first time I opened the Bible for myself in my bedroom. That verse explained the joy I felt following Christ. And it just grew. The hope in place of that dark feeling that I would fail in life. I had this inexplicable, mysterious hope just growing and enjoy following Christ and never went away and just grew. I really recommend Jesus.

Jubi Da Silva:
Do keep on following Christ.

Adam Curtis:
That’s good. That’s good to hear. Someone from Christianity explored ministries saying that.

Jubi Da Silva:
It’s in the contract, you know. Do you love the Lord? Yes we do.

Adam Curtis:
Okay, so you were filled with that joy, and that joy has never left you and has kept you walking with him ever since. And as you’ve been walking with him, in what ways has he brought about transformation?

Jubi Da Silva:
I had a plan for my life before Christ. My plan was to get rich, get drunk, and just have lots of sex. That was my plan. I wanted to leave the carnival life. And that’s why I was in Canada. Toronto. I wanted to get a nice diploma, a nice degree, go back to Brazil, get a nice job, get rich, get drunk and, you know, live that life of lust. The carnival life. Now, that’s not my plan. That’s not the plan I have for my life anymore. And the moment you surrender to Christ, your affections, everything you love, you direct the love to the Lord. And I could see the Lord changing the desires of my heart.

Adam Curtis:
How have you kept that flame alight? How have you kept the fire going? Because often someone can come to the Lord. They can feel actually sometimes overwhelming sense of joy or love, which might last a day or two. But then it’s sort of like fades. How have you. You kept that joy in the Lord alive.

Jubi Da Silva:
You learn to feed your spirit. You learn to walk by the Spirit of Christ. You learn just like babies. Babies crave milk. I have two babies and I know how they scream for it, but eventually they need they need to learn to chew solid food, and we need to do the same with God’s Word. From that hope and joy that is initial, it’s there because of contrast. You were in despair and suddenly there’s true firm hope, real joy. Well, then you have to go back to God’s Word and learn to not just read it, but love it and delight in God’s Word. Fill your spirit with God’s Word.

Adam Curtis:
And I hear that you’re doing a podcast of your own. Could you tell us about that?

Jubi Da Silva:
Oh, Adam Curtis, thank you very much. This is a very. Yeah. No, no, it’s very natural and unplanned. Oh, by the way, yes I would like people to visit abouthim.co.uk.

Adam Curtis:
And can I just say I’m actually on that website right now and it is I’m gripped.

Jubi Da Silva:
Are you gripped.

Adam Curtis:
I’m gripped. The colour, the life.

Jubi Da Silva:
The colours. It’s the. I’m Brazilian, I’m exotic. It’s a podcast about Jesus with my wife. We’re going to go through the gospel and help people meet the Jesus that goes often unseen. People saw Jesus wrapped in cloth in a manger. They saw Jesus as a host of a dinner party for friends, and they see Jesus on a cross. But they need to see the Jesus who doesn’t get seen the prophet, the preacher, the teacher, the friend.

Leah Sax:
If you’re enjoying the delight podcast, why not consider rating or reviewing us on your listening app of choice? It really does make a massive difference. And if you’re particularly enjoying today’s episode, why not share it on socials? You can also find us at Delight Podcast on Instagram, Facebook and TikTok. Thank you for being a part of the Delight Podcast family.

Leah Sax:
Is God just like Morgan Freeman? Dressed in white with a deep, rich voice (just like Jubi) sat on a fluffy cloud directly speaking to us? Or does God work like a mysterious spirit miraculously opening our Bible at the very specific page and passage we need for that very moment of our lives? Or is God’s guidance a feeling, our conscience making us feel really good or really bad about a decision? For some, God’s guidance may seem an unreachable mystery, but others will clearly say, maybe you’ve even heard someone say this recently, god told me this, or a phrase which I use regularly, I know God has called me to this work. So how does God guide us? Jubi does God talk to us with a distinct voice?

Jubi Da Silva:
I believe he does. I believe he guides us, um, in a way that his opportunity for us is right there and we should take it. And I believe we can learn how to discern an open door in front of us, a door that’s unlocked, and then we just take action and we walk in. I do see that in Scripture and in my experience so far, following Christ for 20 years. Yes, God will guide us. That’s something we learn. But we need to start by knowing what is God’s clear will for everyone and for all of God’s people.

Leah Sax:
Okay, so what do we mean when we talk about God’s will?

Jubi Da Silva:
By God’s will, we mean God’s personal desire for us as individuals as we face big decisions in life? Choices in what? Study or work or housing and marriage. Whether to stay in a job or to change career. When to retire. All of these big decisions that will shape the contours of life.

Leah Sax:
So what does Scripture tell us?

Jubi Da Silva:
Before we get into the personal, we need to know what is God’s clear will for everyone and for all of God’s people. It’s only when we get the revealed the clear will of God, clear in our heads, that we can actually trust our discernment as we face choices in front of us. And I have one resource to point people to. It’s a sermon by John MacArthur. Taking the mystery out of knowing God’s will. I watched that sermon in 2014, and he just goes through the Scripture that makes God’s will clear to us. It’s a sweep of Scripture, very thorough sermon. I would like to just go through his points. So the first God wants us to be saved? Yes. That’s why he sent Jesus. He wants us to be saved. There you go. That’s clear. I could give you a passage. Do we need a passage for this?

Leah Sax:
Oh, we can never have too much Bible in a podcast about Jesus.

Jubi Da Silva:
Oh, but I didn’t I didn’t I didn’t mark that one. So forget about the passage. God. God so loved the world that he gave his son. There you go. John 3:16.

Adam Curtis:
I’m glad it didn’t take you too long to think about a passage, about how God’s will is that we be saved through Christ. Yeah.

Jubi Da Silva:
I’m not. Let’s see how this go. Before I can share the link of this podcast with my colleagues.

Adam Curtis:
Don’t share it with your boss Jubi.

Jubi Da Silva:
Okay, so God’s will is that we be saved when we become God’s people. What is God’s will for us? Clearly, we see in Scripture that we would be full of the spirit. The moment you become a Christian, the Spirit of God indwells us. But then we need to be filling our spirits with the Spirit of God. And we see that in Ephesians 5. Ephesians 5 will show us, and it’s oh so good, so good. Be very careful, then, how you live, not as unwise but as wise, making the most of every opportunity. Do not be foolish, but understand what the Lord’s will is. What is it? Do not get drunk on wine, but be filled with the spirit being filled with the spirit. Hear all about filling your mind with the Word of God. In Colossians 3:16 you see the same sort of instruction, but the word there is let the message of Christ dwell among you richly. Soak your mind in God’s Word, saturated with God’s Word, and then God’s will. Third is for you to be sanctified. Very clear in 1 Thessalonians 4:3. This is God’s will. Be sanctified. Be submissive. This is another one that I found clear but tough. God’s will is that you? You suffer. 1 Peter chapter 3:17. It is better if it’s God’s will to suffer for doing good than for doing evil. And the idea is to endure as you do good. You endure the suffering that comes from it. That’s commendable before God that that’s good. The good news here is we don’t suffer without the comforts of God. The comforts are there. They will come. In the book of 2 Corinthians, you see the comforts abounding as Paul suffers for the gospel. Finally, God’s will is that we say thanks.

Jubi Da Silva:
We are thankful people. Be thankful. See that in Ephesians 5. You see that in Colossians 3. So basically, John MacArthur is telling you God’s will is that you be saved. Be full of the spirit, sanctified, submissive, suffering for the gospel, for God, and saying thanks. And then this is the surprising thing. He ends the sermon by saying, if you are doing all this, then well, who do you marry? What do you do? Should I go here? Should I go there? Here’s the good. The good news according to him. Do whatever you want. Do whatever you like. If you are saved, full of the spirit, sanctified, submissive, suffering, thankful. Do whatever you like. And I heard this message back in 2014 and I was so grateful for it, so excited by it. But then I kept on living. Then I remained alive. I look back and I think, well, why wasn’t full of the spirit every day? I wasn’t thankful every day. I wasn’t submissive every day. Facing decisions was difficult because many times I could not discern, is this God’s calling or is this a temptation? Am I being called to stay put and surrender, or am I being called to act? That became more difficult and I realised I needed the wisdom of the spirit and discernment I needed to discern. Because the heart is deceitful and we need to become more experienced as we walk with the Lord. We need to be able to discern his voice, and we see that in Scripture as well. That’s why this topic of discerning God’s will is so exciting, so very exciting, because God really takes us by the hand and guides us, and we need to learn how he does that.

Leah Sax:
So we’ve just seen this wonderful summary or summary? Picture of God’s will so clearly in Scripture, and you’ve spoken about having a head filled with Scripture and that our hearts can be fallen and we’re sinful. What does it look like for us to have a head filled with Scripture? We talked earlier in that little preamble about opening the Bible at random page. What does it mean to delight in God’s Word?

Jubi Da Silva:
So many people do that right in the beginning, right following Christ. You open Scripture. You just want the verse to tell you what to do in your situation. I can tell you right now I’ve done something really bad when that right in the beginning. Oh my word, that was so bad. I didn’t know whether God wanted me to date this girl. So I just went to the park and I took my Bible with me. And I opened the word in Psalm 19. And I started just randomly, and I started reading it. And then it tells it tells you verse 5, it is like a bridegroom. Coming out of his chamber like a champion, rejoicing to run his course. And I thought, yes, the Lord wants this. What did I do? I ran. I went straight away running. Literally running to the to the mall, to the shopping centre. I got flowers, I got chocolate, I got all the stuff.

Adam Curtis:
You romantic!

Jubi Da Silva:
And then. And then I went back and I started dating this girl. Two days later, my brother comes to me and he tells me, well, she’s eight years older than you. You’re 24, she’s 31. She will want marriage in perhaps a couple of years. And look at you! Look at yourself. Are you ready for this? Are you? Did you think about this? And as he spoke to me, I could just feel the stomach cool. And I was just. I thought, oh, my word. I made a huge mistake. You know what I did?

Leah Sax:
Tell us.

Jubi Da Silva:
To my shame, Leah. I’m saying this to edify the listener. Okay. In my shame, people will learn. I went back to that poor girl, and I broke the relationship. Two days later.

Adam Curtis:
Oh my word. What a roller coaster of a ride for this lady.

Jubi Da Silva:
Two days later. Poor thing. We went to church. She went to church as well. The same church. People were congratulating us still for starting the relationship. And I had to tell them. Well. So really, you can hurt so many people trying to be zealous, trying to listen to this voice, trying to use God’s Word in a way it was not intended to be used. Uh, and you can get you can really hurt people. So don’t do what I did. Do what I do now. I grew into this, I’ll tell you.

Leah Sax:
So what do you do now?

Adam Curtis:
I know, keeping hanging on the edge there.

Leah Sax:
You can’t leave us hanging, Jubi.

Jubi Da Silva:
Okay, well, um, at that time, when I listened to that sermon, I thought, that’s right. I’m going to fill my head with God’s word. And I did two scripture. What I had not done to it before. I really started reading it, reading it calmly, reading it aloud, really looking into it, studying scripture, spending time with it. And then better, I started memorising scripture. You know, when you you read once and the second time and the third time a verse or two, and you close Scripture, close the Bible, and then you read it in your mind, and the spirit reminds you of the verse. You start reciting it. I put it on the walls in my bedroom. I would listen to it driving. I was trying my best to soak my mind in Scripture, and I have to say, gosh, I started not just feeling the fruit of the spirit. I really realised why Paul and all the other writers were so excited about about the gospel, about Christ. And then. And then you grow, mature, you start discerning God’s voice better. It gets clearer.

Leah Sax:
So we’ve seen a little bit about what it looks like to be saturated in God’s word, to really have a mind filled with that. What place, then, do our emotions have in discerning God’s will?

Jubi Da Silva:
You have already seen that I can be an impulsive person. I think the story proves it. And then I could become this person who is really suspicious of my own emotions all the time. And you will see preachers and teachers making the people of God suspicious. I had a pastor tell me these exercises in spiritual discernment are fruitless because the heart is deceitful. That’s Jeremiah 17, right? The heart is deceitful. You don’t search within to find God’s will. Later on, that same pastor will tell me a story of how he understood that God was calling him out of his current position into pastoral ministry, and he was perhaps inadvertently telling me a story of spiritual discernment. He discerned the movements in his heart, and he discerned movements outside of him. So you don’t want to become that person who will say, oh, my heart is deceitful. I never should look into it, because Ezekiel 36 will tell you, God gave you a new heart. He replaced your heart of stone for a heart of flesh, and the Spirit of God lives within you in a way you do perscrute within to find the will of God, and you don’t then want to become the other extreme. Every emotion, everything you feel, you take seriously because as though you were, you were glorified. Like everything you feel must be right. No, it’s not right. Everything you feel you have to discern, you have to learn how to discern. And then I learned intuitively before being trained at Regent College. And then I met Gordon Smith, a marvellous professor from Regent College who wrote the book The Voice of Jesus. And in this book he helps us learn from teachers of the word Jonathan Edwards, John Wesley, Ignatius Loyola, how they discerned God’s will via their hearts and the movements outside of them. That’s what I would like to share here with the listener today. It really transformed the way I discern God’s will, and I keep going back to it. So let me Let me tell you.

Leah Sax:
I tell us. I’m waiting like I’m. I’m waiting for you to discern your discernment.

Jubi Da Silva:
I just I need to say this right. I need people are suspicious of emotion. Go to Galatians 5. You see that every thing that is of most things that are fruit of the spirit are things you feel love, joy, peace, gentleness, your own gentleness. You feel it. You feel that self-discipline, Christian spirituality very much takes into account emotion. So of all these guys, I want to tell you what Ignatius Loyola, this reformer of the 15th century, will tell you. He wrote a book called Spiritual Exercises, and he learned that in the Christian life we go either through desolation or consolation. When you are in desolation, your faith, your hope and your love are decreasing. They’re going down because perhaps you neglected prayer. You neglected God’s word. You are not really dwelling in Christ, so you are very much back to feeding your sinful nature. And you are just going through this darkness, or you are in consolation, your faith, your hope, your love. They increase. You are in a state of peace. You feel the peace of Christ dwelling in your heart. You really feel it. It’s something you feel most of all joy.

Jubi Da Silva:
The joy is there. You are content. You are so content. You praise the Lord. You are in, you know, just wonder of being a Christian and grateful. And so basically what he says is this these are movements of the heart, of the human heart. And we need to not trust ourselves when we are in desolation. When you are in desolation and you want to make a major decision out of a job, out of a relationship, or into something that will very much change your life. Don’t trust yourself too much and perhaps what you need you know the way back. Go back to Scripture. Go back to prayer. Seek the Lord’s face and his comfort will come. You will be brought back to consolation. And then you can trust. You can really trust what’s there, the feelings that are there. He will appeal to your desires and guide you into them. And that’s coupled with the movements around me. If God is calling us to do something, there will be open doors. There will be all sorts of confirmation that, yes, you should go ahead and do this.

Leah Sax:
So we’re talking about open doors. And when we’re in periods of desolation, not trusting that emotion, but in periods of consolation when we’re in God’s Word. Do we have any biblical examples of God leading people like this in His word?

Jubi Da Silva:
Oh, Leah. You’re testing, you’re testing the word, which is good. Don’t trust me. Don’t just take.

Adam Curtis:
We don’t. It’s okay. Yeah. Thankfully we do. That’s why we invited you on here.

Jubi Da Silva:
Leah Is there a way you can mute the reverend? I, you know.

Leah Sax:
Don’t worry, I edit. I can mute him as much as I wish.

Jubi Da Silva:
You know, you see the book of Acts. It’s full of examples of how God led the apostles. And I don’t believe the stories are there just to to help us look at the apostles as men who were so distant to us, so holy and perfect that we can’t we can’t learn from the stories. I think the stories are there so that we learn. So look at Acts 16. So aActs 16, verse six shows Paul and his companions travelling throughout the region of Phrygia and Galatia, having been capped by the Holy Spirit from preaching the word in the province of Asia. I find that remarkable. They want to preach the Word in Asia, and the Spirit of Jesus would not allow them to. That’s what the verse, the next verse will say. And then during the night, Paul has a vision of a man of Macedonia standing and begging him to come and help him. And after Paul had seen the vision, we got ready at once. The Bible says, and we concluded that God had called us to preach the gospel to them. They had to evaluate that vision. They had to to discern, is God calling us to do this? That’s to say, it’s not just because Paul wanted to go. That was God’s will for him to go. And in terms of joy, if you see just a chapter before they were having a big council to discern collectively the the Lord’s will for the Gentiles. And there was a sharp dispute happening there. Sharp debate. Imagine that sort of council. But then they bring the news about what God was doing among the Gentiles, and they were very glad. Suddenly there’s joy. And joy now is infusing that debate again. God’s word debate. The discussion is settled when James rises and brings Scripture, and then a big conclusion comes and they write, it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with any other. And they receive the letter with. They were glad for the encouraging message.

Adam Curtis:
That’s quite a helpful distinction. You’re sort of highlighting there. There are moments which will appear very miraculous, that miraculous sort of leading for a vision. And then there are moments which were actually appear very mundane, that sense of emotions growing, that sense of listening to the written word and hearing it preached and letting that lead the people. That’s quite helpful when we think about the sense of God guiding us. God is a God who can work through miracles, and there will be some times when he works miraculously in people’s lives to guide them. But there is also the fact that he uses the mundane, the emotions, his his written word. I can’t believe I’m calling his written word mundane. It’s more more. It’s something easier for us to grasp and get hold of than dull.

Jubi Da Silva:
You see, when Jesus was in Gethsemane. We’re talking here about the one who’s fully human and fully God, and he. He wasn’t there to discern God’s will. He knew God’s will. His divine nature was in complete accordance with God’s will. He knew he had to die. But as he said, the flesh is weak. Pray, pray that you would not fall into temptation. The temptation is there for us. Knowing God’s will to try and resist it. To try and not surrender to it in a way it’s not. Just do whatever you want. If you are full of the spirit or sanctified or. Jesus had to say, not what I want, but what you want.

Leah Sax:
Picking up on some of those examples you brought to us from Acts. There’s a lot of the language of us, and we what part do other people play in discerning God’s will? Clearly, decisions should be made in isolation, just us and God. If you look at that language of us, we we discerned, we prayed. What place do other people play in discerning God’s will?

Jubi Da Silva:
Oh, such a, That’s a very good question. Because we are members of one body, we belong to each other. We are called to be submissive, to submit to one another. That’s the clear will of God for all of God’s people. And in that way, God’s personal will for us will be confirmed encouraged by the church. I’m not talking unanimity. I’m talking the church understanding together with you that, yes, this is a door open for you. You should go. This requires submission and requires that you trust leadership. It’s a difficult question. You see in the book God intervening all the time, using words of prophecy, using prayer and fasting. Using the church to confirm yes, go to to the Gentiles. Yes. This is what you tell to them. Yes, go preach here and not there. I do believe we need to be sensitive to people’s perspectives, but nevertheless we check the movements of God in our hearts.

Leah Sax:
You mentioned at the beginning of the podcast that you learnt a lot of this through experience and through God’s will. What part does experience and wisdom play in discernment?

Jubi Da Silva:
I think it plays a big part. The more you you search God’s will through Scripture and you assess your emotions, you learn how you can harden your own heart. Scripture will say in Hebrews, if you hear God’s voice, do not harden your heart. And we know what that feels like. I remember being in Vancouver. I had some money on me and I was doing a master’s degree, and I thought, you know what? I’m going to rent a nice flat near the beach. I don’t care, I’m going. I’m going to. I’m going to do it. And I could sense my heart hardening, saying, this is what I’m going to do. I came here, I’m going to enjoy this. And I booked it. I could I could sense my heart on my heart on break. Like the break is on my heart. As I was signing that document, that contract. And, um, at that time, I was hosted by an elderly couple, very elderly couple who wanted me to stay with them in their in their basement. And I thought, I’m not staying here. I want to be near the beach. I want to host people. I don’t, I don’t I’m not staying here. A month later, the elderly man had a stroke in the house. That lady was by herself. She was in great distress. And I, I understood. Gosh, I should have been there. The Lord was actually calling me to just soften your heart. Be selfless, be humble, love people, love others.

Leah Sax:
Just parallel to those topics of hardening of heart or indeed softening of our hearts, Jubi do you think God would ever ask us, guide us, to do something that we don’t want to do.

Jubi Da Silva:
In a way? Yes. So I can think of challenges in Christian ministry. You don’t want to have that difficult conversation. You don’t want to write that controversial article. You don’t want to say certain things from the pulpit. You don’t want to disrupt that superficial sense of peace in the home or at work. But the Spirit of God compels you. You don’t want to call out corruption. You don’t want to confront evil. But the Spirit of God compels you. You learn to love the Lord more than you love. Comfort. Isn’t that right? You learn to love him. Beyond having a fun life that nothing happens, you enjoy yourself and have a good time. Serving Christ will be a calling that requires endurance. There will be suffering if you obey, but the sufferings come with the comfort. Every time we suffer for for the gospel or for doing what is right, doing God’s will, just wait. The comforts will come and they will be abundant. You can give comfort to other people.

Leah Sax:
That’s incredibly helpful. We’re going to shift forward a little bit, and we’re going to go to some very practical examples, some nitty gritty. We’re going to give you two scenarios. Scenario one we’re going to go with job related things.

Jubi Da Silva:
Good good good.

Leah Sax:
Because you know some people have jobs.

Jubi Da Silva:
Some. Yeah okay. Good.

Leah Sax:
Reverand Adam

Adam Curtis:
I though You’re implying that I don’t have a job, but you in fact.

Leah Sax:
Know, you do. I just still in my head. Can’t believe you’re a reverend.

Adam Curtis:
And you don’t treat me like I’m a reverend.

Leah Sax:
I don’t even.

Jubi Da Silva:
We revere you, Adam Curtis.

Leah Sax:
We Revere reverend. Okay, so let’s go with that job example. So let’s say I’m in a job and I’m happy. I’m not sure whether to stick it out or look for another one. How do I go about making a decision on that in seeking God’s will?

Jubi Da Silva:
I remember being in a job where the great project I was working on for some time, and my heart was in it. The project was put on standby and I was greatly discouraged. I thought this no, I don’t, that’s wrong. I want to conclude that project. We need to keep going. What is this for? Some months I thought I’m walking out knowing about desolation, knowing that I had been for a while, neglecting my prayer life or neglecting life in Scripture. I wasn’t doing what I learned to do ten years ago. I couldn’t really trust all of my bitterness about that moment, and what I needed to do was retreat. Don’t do anything. Retreat. Don’t make a decision in desolation. Big decision. And as I did, that frustration became actually a happy surprise. My role was redefined at the time, and I just discovered that actually, in all of that, God was leading me into a position where I could actually exercise my gifts in a better way, and I could not foresee it. If I had left in desolation, I would not have discovered that that question should take us back to assessing our own hearts.

Jubi Da Silva:
Are we full of the spirit? Are we being submissive to authority? And God does call us to be submissive. Are we suffering for doing good in our roles and are we thankful? Are we saying thanks? Were we very grateful already before any feeling of discontent came? I would ask these questions first, and if you find yourself in a place of consolation, you are really content, not because of circumstances, but with the Lord. Just grateful for being a Christian. Grateful that you know Christ. You know God’s Word is affecting the way you think and you still want to live. You start praying, you ask for what you want and then you see the movements around you. Is God doing something? Is God showing you? Is there an open door? Is God using people to speak into the situation? The experience tells you God intervenes. He will call you into it. It’s a calling. He will call you into a situation or out of it. But we can pray for it as well.

Leah Sax:
If we are in a period of I’m going to use the word extended desolation, and we are trying to seek and we just don’t feel or know. But decisions still have to be made. Are there any other places or people or ways that we can go about that decision making, when the reality is it is just a spiritually hard season?

Jubi Da Silva:
Oh wow, we are in deep waters, Leah. We are. We are going deep.

Leah Sax:
That’s the reality of life, isn’t it?

Jubi Da Silva:
It is, it is. And there are seasons like that. Do we have a friend in whom we can confide? Do we confess? Do we have someone who I can confess my sins to? Who prays with me? A friend, someone I always try to have at least one person like that besides my wife, who I can. I can talk to and share that burden with. They don’t have to be a reverend. Although they are welcome.

Leah Sax:
I love you, Adam.

Adam Curtis:
Don’t worry. I don’t want to be your one friend.

Leah Sax:
Adam Curtis. You are my friend, Adam.

Jubi Da Silva:
We keep on picking on him. Um, but they they they just need to be Christian. They need to know the Lord. They need to. To pray with you. And you share. You don’t walk into or out of situations that will shape your life without just by yourself.

Leah Sax:
I’m going to give us a second scenario, which I feel we may have already hit in today’s podcast because frankly, you are the absolute king of storytelling. And it’s I really appreciate it. That is a good gift of the Lord.

Jubi Da Silva:
I just shame myself don’t I?

Leah Sax:
Scenario two. Um, let’s say I’ve been dating this guy for about a year. How do I know it’s God’s will that I marry him?

Jubi Da Silva:
First of all, again, Foundation. Are you being sanctified? If you are in a relationship with, uh, someone who could become your spouse. Someone of the opposite sex. To be clear, you need to be following what scripture will tell you very clearly. 1 Thessalonians, it is God’s will that you should be sanctified. Explanation that you should avoid, sexual immorality, that each of you should learn to control your own body in a way that is holy and honourable, not in passionate lust like pagans who do not know God. This needs to be said. If we are guarding ourselves physically, we are under God’s will, revealed clear will. And then even then, it’s not clear. It’s not easy to understand. But if you weren’t, that’s my warning. Go back to obeying God and it will be clearer to you. But if you are, you take others, others with you. I don’t think we should be dating in isolation. You date someone and you bring people with you parents, Siblings, the church, other people. You talk about it and you test that person socially because marriage, future in the future will be a social endeavour adventure. Does that person, uh, help you grow in your knowledge of God, or do they take you far from him when you are with that person? Does your joy increase? Is that relationship giving you joy? Is that relationship helping you grow spiritually? Gosh, so much that could be said here.

Adam Curtis:
Oh, I feel like there was actually something quite subversive in everything, which you were just saying there. Like, sometimes I think from my like, I don’t know, stuffy, conservative way that I am. I think about God like, does God speak to us with a distinct voice? And I sort of want to be like, no, he doesn’t. When what I mean by that is, no, he doesn’t. But it’s more complicated than that. Yeah, yeah. Well, actually, like, I just love the fact that Jubi was like, yes, he does. And then just helped us to enjoy the complexities of the way that God does distinctively speak to us with with heads which are filled with his words and which hearts which are being guided by his spirit, by his spirit. It’s like, oh, come on.

Leah Sax:
Yeah, you’re exactly right. God can lead us miraculously by speaking to us with the direct voice. But that’s not the common way he leads us. I love that language of being saturated by the word just so I felt like a sponge. Like every layer of you would be filled with God’s Word. And I feel like, well, not. I feel like it’s absolutely true. We come back to this every single episode. Is the importance of being so deep in in God’s Word. I love that language of also just being content in Jesus. That is a joy and that does feed our spirits.

Leah Sax:
It’s time for our bonus question of the season. And that question is for season six. I don’t know why you’re laughing. It’s not difficult. It’s not some kind of like Bible quiz in Leviticus. Because anyway, the question is what are you currently most thankful for?

Jubi Da Silva:
Oh, hello. Wow. This is the moment to gain brownie points. Uh, with the wife. I’m really thankful for her. I am really grateful for her. I had a nice dinner yesterday with my darling wife, Annie, and I just remembered. Oh, that’s why I married her. I actually like her.

Leah Sax:
Thank you so much to Jubi da Silva for being our guest on episode 25 of Delight Podcast. That’s it. We’ve started season six, season six. We are here next week. We have the wonderful Inonge Siluka here talking about justice, but for now it’s Adam and Leah delightfully signing off. Bye bye.

Adam Curtis:
Bye.