TRANSCRIPT Episode 7: Evangelism – sharing Jesus

Leah Sax:
Hello and welcome to episode seven of Delight Podcast, I’m Leah Sax and this is Adam Curtis.

Adam Curtis:
Hello. In today’s episode of Delight Podcast, we’re going to be interviewing the wonderful Caz Dodds on the topic of evangelism. Now Caz is a member of Edinburgh North Church. She works for the Scottish Government and the Civil Service. She’s a wife and a mother of two, and in the rest of her time in her week, she does many wonderful Christian things and activities, which she’ll be telling us about later. Evangelism for those who aren’t in the know. It means talking about Jesus to non-believers.

Adam Curtis:
Hello and welcome to today’s guest, the wonderful Caz Dodds.

Caz Dodds:
Hi, Adam.

Adam Curtis:
Hello, it’s nice for you to be on the show. Caz my first first question. What is Caz short for anything?

Caz Dodds:
The story behind why my name got shortend. No, I don’t know. Do in my school there was a lot of Carolines, and pretty much all of them got shortened to Caz just what we did. And that just carried on for me.

Leah Sax:
Does anyone actually call you, Caroline?

Caz Dodds:
Actually, no. I work all of those people in my life. Yes, that quite large part of my life and my week and people do call me Caroline there. It’s like slightly starting to creep in if people know me outside of work. So they call me Caz it didn’t feel very civil service to rock up, as Cazzie

Adam Curtis:
Particularly to say, Cazzie. Ok, OK, you’ve hinted at your your life. Why don’t you tell us a little bit about what you do with your week?

Caz Dodds:
Yeah, so a normal week for me. Most of my time is spent with my two girls. I’ve got twins who have recently turned five. I work part time at the Scottish Government in the civil service as a policy adviser. And then the rest of the week I do various kind of Christian or charity sort of things. So things like speaking a university outreach events, that’s me. The other important thing actually about me and about my identity that I should mention is that I used to work with Adam.

Leah Sax:
Yes. Tell us about that.

Adam Curtis:
And why is this? Why is this important for your identity?

Caz Dodds:
Oh, it was emotional. It’s just really it really shaped me as a person. You know Adam? Those years that I was in Glasgow at the time, working for the Christian Union. And Adam was in Edinburgh. Every now and again, we get together for team days in Dundee. The were good times.

Adam Curtis:
All right.

Caz Dodds:
Adam, yeah?

Adam Curtis:
I was like, I was nervous. They were like first year of a worker doing like university missions, and I was just learning so much. from the old and the wise

Adam Curtis:
Oh!

Caz Dodds:
Steady on there Adam! Less of the old!

Adam Curtis:
Anyway, Let’s delve deeper into your life there, Caz, and your story. Could you maybe tell us just yeah, how you came to know the Lord Jesus?

Caz Dodds:
So I grew up in a family where it was good to like, ask questions and to like, learn. Learning was quite an important thing. I think my parents really passed on to me. I don’t remember them kind of trying to sort of pass on a particular worldview or kind of faith position or anything. But they did teach me to, to think and to ask questions, discuss and debate. And I think that had like a really big impact on me growing up. And as a teenager, I became kind of aware that I’d inherited sort of agnostic atheism, I suppose, like I was assuming that there wasn’t a God, but I wasn’t, you know, I wouldn’t say I was sure on that, and I became increasingly unsatisfied with that position. I sort of realised that I definitely well, I thought there wasn’t a God, and yet there was all sorts of things that kind of came up against that position. It felt like there were things constantly knocking against it. So even just the kind of world around me, I just thought it was so surprising that there was church buildings on every street corner. And yet it played such like a small role in in my life or even kind of, you know, our sort of social cultural architecture, you know, the things that kind of shape our year like Christmas and Easter, those sorts of things as well as my own life It felt like.

Caz Dodds:
I remember really putting together the idea that if there isn’t a God, then my understanding of moral accountability is impacted by that. So you know what? Why does it matter what I do if it’s, you know, if it’s legal, if it doesn’t hurt people? And I just started to get myself totally tied in with that way of thinking. But well, it’s all key for me to do whatever I want. And yet I had this sense that it wasn’t and that there was a kind of universality, I suppose, to morals. So there was all those sorts of things kind of made me think, Well, hold on a minute. Is it really the case? We all we all just think like this clearly, you know, it’s not true, but our physical, social, moral infrastructure is kind of been shaped by this thing that we all accept is a bit of a fairytale like, surely that can’t be right. And around that time, I had school friends who who were Christians and invited me to their youth group to kind of explore more about Christianity. So that was my first real kind of introduction to to Christian things. Looking back, I can see now that there was other times when people kind of told me about Jesus, explain things about Christianity to me.

Caz Dodds:
But that was really the first time when I thought, All right, here I am exploring this for myself. And it was like, Yikes. I mean, like, all right people. People do believe this, and there’s kind of a really good foundation for believing this as well. You know, these people are not just talking and kind of fairy tale language once upon a time in a land far away, they’re showing me really persuasive reasons for believing and why they believe which was, yeah, huge to me. And then it wasn’t until I went to university. What I really enjoy doing, you know, just asking all these questions kind of landed home to me where I realised the kind of personal implications of that being true. Jesus really was a son of God. If I really was broken off from God because of my sin, then I had to repent and put my trust in Jesus, and I’d kind of held that off for a long time. I’d seen it as a kind of like intellectual thing that I wanted to figure out sort of academics or conquests, whereas it was in my first year of uni when I put my trust in Jesus and those things sort of came together.

Adam Curtis:
Okay, so you arrived at university, sort of all been building up for a few years, this sort of intellectual sort of picture and then sort of the emotional spiritual reality of who Jesus was when he’d done for you sort of hit home. Did that bring about a like a transformation in your life?

Caz Dodds:
Yeah, totally turned upside down. You know, in lots of ways, there’s lots of things that stayed like the same, you know, still studying university and the same and had the same friendship group and personality was the same. All sorts of things, you know, completely changed. And I think looking back, I would say that was quite a slow, slow sort of transformation. For me, there is different bits of life that I just had not considered would be impacted by being a Christian like I played for our college football team. And I remember, just like they just were totally separate worlds to me for a long time playing football and then my Christian things. I remember playing once and seeing someone from the church that I was going to in the other team and realising that I just be like Swearing mouthing Off the other team, all this stuff. And then it was like I was brought. I was like, Whoa, there was some church

Caz Dodds:
Like, maybe there’s Something here. I should be thinking about it, like the kind of concept of an integrated Christian life. Maybe, you know, I’m sure that my parents would see that there was that was quite a rapid fire change because for them, I went to university, came back and there was lots of changes. But as I look at it, I think I was pretty slow to do some of those things together. In lots of ways Kind of everything changed.

Adam Curtis:
What was in the journey after that, yeah, how did the Lord teach you and shape you for the years to come.

Caz Dodds:
Big thing for Me was church. Some friends at university invited me along to Christian Union at uni. They wrote it on my hand, actually

Adam Curtis:
Pre the days of their smartphones.

Caz Dodds:
And yeah, so yeah. And I and I was like, Oh, I’m a Christian, too. And they were like, All right, let me just write down where the Christian Union meets, in case you don’t remember. So I kind of got to know some Christians from the halls I was in. Then they took me along to church, and that church just absolutely met me where I was didn’t assume anything, but instead just to like sort to teach, to teach me the Bible consistently week in, week out and were very intentional just about laying good foundations for for students that really formative time. So a kind of weekly small group Bible study was a really, really significant thing for me in terms of like building a Christian friendship group and also just week in, week out, studying the Bible and different parts of the Bible. My oh, maybe second or third year someone from church, one of the student workers from Church read one to one with me. So we’d meet up each week over a coffee and read the Bible together, and that was just massive for me. It was like kind of penny dropping, noticing that, you know, I remember reading part of Colossians was like a list of kind of what it was like to live in the old self. And she said, You know, is there any of this list which of this list you struggle with.

Caz Dodds:
She knows, she knows, like? And she’s assuming here, right? Like as someone who’s put my trust in Jesus, she’s assuming that I’m still struggling with sin. I thought that all the all the Christians who’d been Christians for a long time that they were just like, Sorted, done sin finished. So that was kind of like a real revelation to me as a kind of one off thing, but then also as something that is just sort of stayed with me. Growing in the Christian life is this kind of constant growth and becoming more like Jesus and seeing more, you know, parts of ourselves that we want to put to death and put on our new selves,

Leah Sax:
Caz clearly your time at uni was quite transformative. Have there been any time since where you’ve had any periods of, say, struggle or challenges, where you’ve doubted God’s presence or the reality of God? Or has God’s presence been something always very real to you?

Caz Dodds:
I think I ask that is it true question all the time? I wouldn’t say there’s been any time like, you know, any time in my life really, where I’ve not just thought, like, is it true? Is this is it real? And I suppose, you know, they kind of thought pathways that had as a teenager before becoming a Christian. They they change, but there’s lots of them. They’re still there. I still I can. I still very much can remember the logical kind of thinking that made me think that there probably wasn’t a God, those sorts of things. So I still totally like Empathise. I don’t know if that’s the right word, but with people who who don’t believe, each time I ask the question, I’m still utterly convinced of the truth and the goodness of the Lord Jesus. That doesn’t disappear. And actually, I would say in times of struggle, that has been all the more true that things that I face in my life that I really did not want to face. I thought that they would be times when I would doubt. Actually, they weren’t. The are The times when I felt like I’ve lent the hardest on Jesus and found him to be the all the more faithful and good and kind.

Leah Sax:
We’d love to let you know about our website DelightPodcast.com. There you can find transcripts of each episode, more detailed show notes and Adams. I’m going to admit it quite interesting blogs, including the new one this week. Looking more into evangelism. We’d love for you to rate, subscribe and share, and if you wish, review Delight Podcast. It really does make such a big difference, and it helpsk others find us more easily. You can follow us on Instagram, Facebook and Twitter. Just search Delight Podcast. Let’s get back to Caz and hear what she has to say about evangelism.

Caz Dodds:
So, yes, Caz we’re finally getting around to today’s topic, which is evangelism. How would you describe evangelism?

Caz Dodds:
I think I probably say, like sharing Jesus with people or speaking speaking,

Adam Curtis:
Yeah, and I think that’s and that’s so important to highlight that sharing Jesus speaking about Jesus, because I think often sometimes our Christian culture, we think we hear the word evangelism, and it’s spoken about in such a way that it’s just living a holy life and that is evangelism. Obviously, as Christians, we are called to live a holy life and we do want to do that and that helps us in our evangelism.

Leah Sax:
So my question to you then, Caz if faith is a personal relationship with Christ, it’s something that’s private. Why would we want to talk about it?

Caz Dodds:
And there is, I think, the kind of like air we breathe in terms of like thinking about kind of religious faith, as is very much that, you know, our culture does tell us are a society maybe does tell us that it is personal, it’s private. So I think I kind of sympathise with that sort of feeling quite a lot. And though I would say that we’re all different and there is very little that is personal and private about me. So, you know, most it is all out there to a fault, and people that know me tend to know, like most things about me because I’m a verbal processor and so most things about me, I will speak out. We’re all different, though, and I think I think there is definitely that sort of like cultural norm, which is that don’t don’t push your your faith on me. So in the university campuses, I think you hear that all the time. I hear people say all the time like, I respect everyone’s views as long as they don’t push them on me, by which I think we really mean that I don’t respect your views enough to seriously consider them for myself. But I think fundamentally, the thing that sort of keeps that thought at bay for me is that Christianity is just not about me. It is not about me and my kind of personal, private sense of well-being. You know, the foundational truth of Christianity. What is all about? It’s about Jesus and who he is, that Jesus Lord, he’s the son of God. He is the revelation of God, and he’s so good. He’s holy and righteous and compassionate and kind. He’s worthy. He’s worthy of being praised, of being worshipped of, you know, having our whole lives lived out for him.

Caz Dodds:
He’s worthy of adoration of love. That’s what Christianity is about. It’s not about me achieving a kind of personal or private feeling. It’s about the son of God who came from heaven to earth to seek and to save the last to bring wanderers home. That’s who he is. That’s what Christianity is about. And so that for me is like, there’s not much about that kind of massive story about God coming from heaven to Earth to seek and to save the lost, to die in their place as a substitute for all who put their trust in him, you know, and then rising from the dead conquering death. Now he’s living reigning, sustaining the world, and that he will come again as judge. That isn’t true because of my kind of personal conviction or, you know, or desire for that to be true, that is out there. Objective external reality. And my faith is me getting on board with what is real about the world. And so that’s true for everyone else as well. You know, it’s not something that’s just true for me. How we become a Christian I think often does kind of like influence our our Christian life? And for me, it always very much has been a question of but what is true, what is real, what accords with reality or is the nature of of life, the world and everything? And that isn’t something which is just true for me. That’s that’s most fundamentally and foundationally, that’s about who God is and what he’s done. Sharing Jesus with people speaking about Jesus with people is just getting on board with that. It’s a good, kind, generous act.

Leah Sax:
Yeah Caz you’ve kind of flipped my question on its head, haven’t you? Because I was asking, is faith something that’s private? One directional? But actually, you’re saying that faith is a lived out life that is shared with everyone you meet, so you’ve completely turned on its head? It’s become every day and everything.

Caz Dodds:
Totally. And I think even in that, like, you know, the kind of understanding our faith as a personal relationship with God, there is lots about that I think is totally brilliant and right. But there’s lots about that as well that I think is a kind of I was laughing. There was, but, there’s like, there’s a lot in that that I think is actually more shaped out of our culture’s commitment to individualism and to our own kind of therapeutic sense of self that we hold as being so important than from biblical Christianity, actually. You know, yes, it’s about being reconciled with God by being reconciled with God I’m also brought into a family of brothers and sisters who’ve been reconciled to him. And you know, that will impact all of life. So there isn’t something which can be foundationally a kind about a personal relationship that doesn’t mean that it’s all that it is. But also, I would question the idea that based our experience are kind of being brought into Christianity is about this. I don’t know that you could define it as this personal relationship? I’ve got a question mark on that. We do have a relationship with God, I’m not saying that. I just think that we reduce, we reduce it to that rather than seeing it as kind of a.

Leah Sax:
Part of a…

Adam Curtis:
Was just reflecting if I was a married man and I never spoke about my wife, ever, and no one ever knew that I had a wife. Well, what would you? What would you assume? Assume that I didn’t really care very much for her, and she’s not a very important part of my life. And she doesn’t really matter. But you would also assume that I’m like a deceiver. I’m literally deceiving the people around me about about the state of reality.

Caz Dodds:
Because such a huge thing, such a big part of your life ought to be something that you also speak about and share and is obvious in the way that you act and the way that you behave.

Adam Curtis:
And that becomes even more so then. Yeah, when we’re talking about like the divine, because personally, because of the personal implications he has in my life. But as I think you say, hopefully stated because of actually the universal truth and reality of who God is, he is an implications on everyone’s lives.

Leah Sax:
Why would we want to evangelise Caz? I know you kind of hinted at it a bit earlier, but why would you want to tell us about Jesus?

Caz Dodds:
I think primarily, and I asked myself this a lot, particularly if speaking publicly about Jesus. The thing for me, which I keep reminding myself of, is the worth the worthiness of Jesus. He is absolutely worthy of worship. He’s not only worthy of my worship of of everyone’s. He’s worth my devotion. He’s worth my public commitment to him before other people. He’s worth that. He is worthy of everyone’s worship. You know, I think sometimes we feel a bit like second hand car salesman that we think, Oh, am I offering something which is actually not that good for people? We try to, like, make it look shinier than it is and like better so that just simply so that we’ll get a kind of purchase from people. You know that people will be interested and actually, wow. The gospel is the best news for all people. That’s the kind of foundational thing for me. You know, we are all evangelists, really. There are things we love enough to tell other people about them. Are they so whether that’s the COVID vaccine or a Man City or for me, for a long time, it was toddler sleep schedules. Anyone I spoke to like evangelise about the benefits of toddler sleep schedules. Jesus is such a different category of goodness and weight that sometimes it feels like too much to talk about these things because it feels so huge that we feel like, oh gosh, that feels like too good to speak in that kind of really like him. So you should like him to kind of way. But when we pause to think about it is weird that we would be willing to give people some things, but not the best thing. And I think that does probably speak to a divide in our own lives as well, that we do tend to like, maybe keep Christian things to a box like I described as a young student.

Leah Sax:
Caz to be honest, which we frequently are, I’m sometimes emotionally not overwhelmed by the gospel.

Caz Dodds:
Yes,

Leah Sax:
Just in reality, I get distracted by day to day life when my head is elsewhere and I sometimes it’s not, for me, a real head and heart truth, though I know it’s the truth. What can we do to keep us going to keep evangelising when we feel like that, regardless of what your objective is to be the truth? Why should we keep evangelising? How do we keep going?

Caz Dodds:
I think sometimes we we sort of divide. We’re talking a lot about like divisions here aren’t we like false divisions. I think sometimes we divide like evangelism, telling people who aren’t Christians about the gospel with, like, discipleship, for example, kind of growing as a Christian, that sort of thing. Again, I think that’s unhelpful. Like, the gospel is good news for everyone and we we need the same gospel. If we’ve been a Christian 20 years to, if we’ve been a Christian, 20 minutes, don’t we? So we we still need to receive the grace of God in Christ, and we still need to respond by repentance and faith that does not change. And so when I’m sharing Jesus with other people, I’m not just like speaking to them, you know, speaking a message which is only for them. I’m speaking to myself, you know, I’m reminding myself of the truth and goodness about Jesus. We’re all in the same, you know, position of needing to receive and receive grace, receive forgiveness from God. So I don’t think about, you know, I try not to. Anyway, if I’m speaking about Jesus, I try not to say, all right, here is what a non-Christian. I don’t even really like that phrase tends to talk about people who aren’t Christians because I don’t know many people that identify as a non-Christian.

Caz Dodds:
I don’t know. I don’t think like, you know, I’m speaking to them there. And then when I’m speaking to the Christian Union or to the Christians, like I’ll see X, Y or Z. I think like we remind ourselves of the truth and goodness of Jesus. We all need that all the time. That for me is if I’m not, you know, kind of emotionally geared up for like a day of evangelism like overflowing with the knowledge of the goodness of God, then all I need is to be reminded of the truth and goodness of Jesus. And that’s why I think it’s so what a privilege to get to speak about Jesus with other people. We’re growing through that as well. Now, don’t get me wrong, I wouldn’t say that if I was like going through a period of extreme kind of doubt and uncertainty that then the thing to do is to, like, book in some talks, public formation like, you know, that might not be the most helpful thing at that time, but as a kind of like just a general kind of day by day feeling of like, Oh, I might not be overflowing with love for Jesus today. Well, yeah, I think what I need is the truth and goodness of Jesus, and that’s why I’m going to be sharing with people.

Leah Sax:
And, you know, Caz experientially, I can completely identify with what you’re saying, because when I had a great conversation with someone about Jesus, I feel so encourage the spirit is work in me, and I’d never thought about the duality of when I’m speaking the truth to others. The truth is also speaking to my own heart. The spirit is at work in me, and I’d never thought about that before. So thank you so much for bringing that up and say, I love having such great guests. We just squeeze their wisdom out of them.

Caz Dodds:
But it is, I feel like I, you know, I go away from these things just so, so delighted that the gospel is true. So glad it’s true. And and that’s why, you know, we can’t. We should ever be afraid of exploring and questioning and critiquing. We don’t ever want to kind of fall into a sort of like, Oh, but what if I’ll what if I discover something that makes me think that Christianity is not true? You know, like it’s good to to have these conversations and to chew these things over and we experience the truth and goodness of Jesus all over again.

Adam Curtis:
Oh yeah! Cos our God is a god of truth. So when we’re like delving into truth and using these minds, which guess what? He was one who gave us them. When we’re using them, they’re actually we’re delving further into him and into his reality, into how he’s made the world.

Leah Sax:
Yeah, and we’ve spoken about the joy and the hope and the worthiness of Jesus. But Caz when you’re kind of evangelising as it were, how much in your mind are you aware of the opposite, aware of people who are not saved and the truth of an eternity separated from Christ? How much is that on your heart?

Caz Dodds:
Yeah, I mean, that’s massive for me. Like that kind of thought that like knowledge of that reality is is huge to me. I don’t often speak about hell publicly because I find it so sad to speak about. I would only like do a talk that did talk about hell if I was specifically asked to address a particular question, because it’s just a subject that I find very hard to speak about publicly because I normally start crying, which people have said no, but that would be fine. But, you know, we’ve all got weaknesses and that would be mine. I wouldn’t want to shy away from the truth of that in any by any sense. That is something that’s very real to me, you know, very few of my family members are Christians, so it’s a very kind of like real raw. Yeah. Sort of knowledge. So I think I think it is kind of it’s always there. And I think I’ve heard people say, you don’t you don’t necessarily want your motivation for evangelism shouldn’t just be kind of fleeing from hell. It should be about fleeing to Christ. I think both both are true. You know, like we do flee to Christ because we know how awful an eternity without him is. Both of those things, I think, need to be true. And when we’re speaking about the gospel,

Leah Sax:
That’s just so helpful because it is heartbreaking. And it’s just really it’s hard to process, isn’t it?Because it matters?

Caz Dodds:
Yes. And it makes me lean all the harder on the kind of the knowledge of God’s justice and his fairness and his goodness, the sadness that I feel over that somehow I will be in the new creation praising Jesus and not devastated by his judgement. I will be, you know, praising him for his judgement to delighted by it somehow. There are things that I’ll see then I do struggle to see now.

Leah Sax:
Hmm. And it does make complete sense, isn’t it, because it’s important to acknowledge both sides of that, that kind of running to Jesus, the one who is most worthy of praise and that motivation, but also at the same time, knowing that we are fleeing from an eternity without Christ, and that I can just be really hard to process. But I guess, you know, it’s that kind of eyes up as opposed to eyes down. But I’m just I’m just thankful that you’ve acknowledged helped us realise that it is really hard to speak about these things and kind of to emotionally process all of that. Yeah.

Adam Curtis:
This truth in this reality that I’ll go to the just God. This drives us to our knees in prayer. There are people in my life who I love very, very deeply, and I I have no idea how they will ever become a Christian. And it seems like they’re so far, and I’m literally just going to get on my knees. I’ve got to pray for them And sometimes.

Caz Dodds:
To the God, who cares more, you know, for them. Yeah. Blows my little mind. Made them loves them. Gave a son for them.

Leah Sax:
Yeah. And so we’re on our knees in prayer to the God who loves them. And I imagine that for a lot of our podcast family, immediately names will spring to mind of people they love who don’t know Jesus. What if you’re a person who’s listening, who’s thinking, I just don’t know enough about the Bible to start speaking to others. I’m new or I’m not good with words, and I just can’t quote hold bible verses perfectly. What would you say to them Caz?

Caz Dodds:
I mean, like, I am the worst. I mean, it is hilarious Adam that You asked me to do this podcast because I say the wrong thing all the time. Like all the time, I need to say sorry all the time for things I’ve said that aren’t particularly helpful. I often tell this story about one of the first times that I was given the opportunity to tell someone about Jesus and what I believed as a Christian at uni. It was like kind of like text book like, oh right, so what Christians believe kind of moment that really rarely comes up. You know, most questions aren’t like that. Most questions are like, why are you doing that? Think differently? Why are you living like this? Or Why did you spend your time like that? Or, you know, those sorts of things? This was a kind of textbook what the Christians believe, and I sort of try to explain as best I could. I thought I was, you know, I thought I gave a pretty good kind of overview of what Christians believe. And he said, That sounds terrible. It’s like, Oh, I’ve said it wrong then because it is good news. Thankfully, he was friends with some other Christians as well. And so over the yeah, you know, miraculously, over the course of a couple of years, he did become a Christian still following Jesus. But people say things wrong Things all the time, don’t they? I think arguably if you read the book of Acts, it looks like sometimes the Apostles got it wrong as well. I kind of think that like concern that like desire to want to say the right thing is like, is an OK Starting point? It’s OK to be worried about that, isn’t it like it’s what it’s not OK is? If that makes you stop telling people about Jesus, but having a concern about representing Jesus in a way that is faithful to who he really is, that’s a great thing.

Caz Dodds:
You know, that drives me to want to be ready for stuff like, I want to be prepared for questions I might get. And, you know, particularly thinking about areas of life where we are distinctive. I think often it’s only once that has passed. I thought, Oh, that would have been an opportunity to speak about my faith, but it’s not teed up in a way that we want it to be. It’s not that kind of text book. So what do Christians believe? Although it’s great to think of a kind of way to answer that question two or more often be like, Oh, why aren’t you drinking as much? You know, it was like, Oh, like a huge anomaly in my family that I wasn’t living with Kieran, my husband, before we got married. And actually, that would have been a huge opportunity had I like thought about it a bit more in advance to speak about our faith in Jesus. So I think it’s good to to want to say the right thing. It’s good to be prepared, be ready to answer questions to think about how you would answer questions.

Caz Dodds:
That’s a good and human and caring thing, you know we want to. Think through both how we can be faithful to Jesus, but also how we can respect our friends and how we can speak in a winsome, kind way. It really is thinking through what kind of questions might people ask, you know, and it’s not things that we necessarily want the questions to be. For a long time people when asking about the church I go to. It’s like, what denomination is it part of? Well, at that point, we just left a denomination because of number of different things, but the kind of breaking point was a kind of different position on same sex marriage. And so that’s not really where you want to have a kind of evangelistic conversation, you know, like you don’t you kind of just want to skirt over that. And yet that’s where people are asking, that’s kind of one of the touchpoints or one of the things that makes us distinctive. So I would like think through, well, how could I potentially speak about that in a way that does point people to the truth and goodness of Jesus to both think about how can I be faithful to Jesus? But also, how can I really sort of show my respect to my care for the person that I’m speaking to, whatever environment that’s in? I always want to show that demonstrate a care and a love for them. That’s part of our preparedness as well, that if we’re kind of speaking, it’s one Peter, but isn’t, with gentleness and respect, always have a reason for the hope. I am mangling this verse

Adam Curtis:
1 Peter 3:15

Caz Dodds:
3:15 Yes. Here we go in your heart. Honour Christ, the Lord is holy. Always being prepared to make a defence to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you. Yet do with gentleness and respect. You know, so for example, going into university environment. I want to understand the people that I’m speaking to. I want to know what their culture is like, what music they’re listening to, what films they’re watching, what they’re studying, what’s the kind of what’s the chat on campus like? What’s important to them? What what are the values that they hold, those sorts of things? I want to genuinely respect them. You know what to do with gentleness and with respect and not kind of see things that will cause unnecessary offence?

Leah Sax:
Yeah. And as further pondering that that 1 Peter 3:15 versus be ready to give an answer. There is a proactive preparedness to that, isn’t it, to coin a phrase we are thanking. So as opposed to just waiting that you’ve already prepared an answer, you’ve chatted through something you’ve read, read about it, you’ve thought about something. Yeah, how would you go about the initiating conversation as opposed to waiting for something to just appear and happen?

Caz Dodds:
I think one thing that I’ve tried to do is be more proactive about offering people an avenue for conversation that is on Christian things. So, for example, it’s a real gift to me in terms of opening up of conversations that used to work for a Christian charity. It’s Normal for people to say, What did you do before this job or whatever? I tend to be quite like proactive about saying, I’ll maybe like introduce it and kind of like a soft, kind of accessible way, saying I worked in the charity sector and then I’ll say I worked for a Christian organisation that supports the Christian unions in the universities, something that like offers that as a kind of this is something that I’m happy to talk about, basically. And that could be what did you do on Sunday? Could say I met with friends or whatever you could say. I went to church do that each week. It just kind of offers up as a kind of this is an okay grounds for conversation because it’s not normally it’s politics and religion, isn’t it? We’re not supposed to speak about. So that’s me kind of just offering it up saying like, it’s OK for me to speak about that. But also, if there’s something that I sense, this is slightly separate. But if I sense there’s something that might be a struggle for someone, then I might just drop into conversations that I’ve struggled with that in the past or now, you know, and maybe that’s kind of like, All right, and I’ve picked that up wrongly, and they don’t want to talk about it at all.

Caz Dodds:
But I suppose it’s just kind of offering opening up yourself a little bit to say, like, it’s OK if you want to talk about this particular area, something to it’s OK to cross some of those boundaries Sometimes that my brother in law, who’s a real sort of example to me in mission and evangelism, he talks about the kind of line of pain that there is this cultural convention that you’re supposed to like, not cross over certain things you’re not supposed to like. Ask that question or A. about Christian things you say it’s OK to kind of cross that line where you feel that, Oh, is it OK for me to say this about my faith in Jesus? Or is it OK for me to ask them what their views are that maybe just to go a little bit further than we might have a tendency to want to? Now, obviously, we need to know ourselves and our own dangers. So like some of us, I would say probably few of us, but some of us will just be like very bold in conversation and will will just be crossing all sorts of boundaries at different times. So we don’t want to do that. We don’t want to hurt people unnecessarily. But for most of us, our problem will probably not be that we’re too bold. It’ll probably be that we’re too timid. So it’s a kind of push ourselves a little bit, I think is fine.

Leah Sax:
I must admit, I find it helpful that it’s not me at work. Yes, it’s God at work, it’s the spirit at work, and it’s a great relief, like when I feel like I’m saying something wrong, God is at work through this. It’s not about me. How do you think about that? How do you process that?

Caz Dodds:
I am deeply reassured by God’s sovereignty, and you know, his character is that he’s the evangelist. You know, Jesus is the ultimate evangelist. He’s the one who’s sown the truth about himself into the very fabric of the universe. He wants to be known, and he’s a God who’s in the business of making himself known to people. He sent the prophets he sent his son to proclaim the truth about himself. He sends his spirit to open our spiritual eyes, the goodness of Jesus. So knowing that God is the one who’s on mission. He’s the evangelist that is deeply reassuring to me how incredible that he should choose to use us, incredibly. He would choose to use us like wrong words saying the wrong thing.

Leah Sax:
Yeah, he works despite us.

Caz Dodds:
Exactly, exactly. And he’s able, yes, able.

Leah Sax:
to Do immeasurably more.

Caz Dodds:
That he doesn’t need me to say the right things. And I think about that all the time. People say to me, or remember, you said to me 10 years ago this, and it led me to think that. And I think one not sure that was me. Don’t think I said that. Two. If I did, actually what I was meaning was this, and the consequence should have been that. But the Lord and in his goodness, you know, uses these things for his own glory, like comes back to is just not about me.

Adam Curtis:
So and it’s just so liberating, isn’t it, to be like it’s not actually about me? I was convicted again recently by a truth I already did know that actually, this work of mission and evangelism it is is a work of following where the spirit is like leading. And actually, God has already been working in people’s lives for a lot longer than when I turn up on the scene. It’s actually it’s just sort of following, Okay, what has God already be doing in this person’s life? How can I further that? How can I encourage that? How can I be a part of this rather than thinking it’s all about me in this in this moment?

Leah Sax:
Yeah, and that’s incredible, because when I’m talking, I’m thinking, how can I say the right thing, the right time with the right reference and speak clearly and be praying simultaneously. And when I let go go of that and just realise, Oh, it’s OK, God has got this. It’s not about me. And just praying lord, just use me.

Caz Dodds:
Yes. Yeah, it’s totally freeing, isn’t it?

Leah Sax:
Oh, completely. And you know, it’s also just I’m totally preaching to myself right now like, I need to hear this myself.

Caz Dodds:
Yeah, totally. Well, you know, there’s been really helpful for me because it’s never quite as cut and dry as this. But we write people off. You know, I’ve spent years praying for my family. I used to pray from every day and then I just realised over the last year, maybe more. I’ve just stopped. I’ve stopped just praying for them every day, praying for, well, various things that God would put other Christians in their life too, that I have opportunity to speak all those sorts of things. So I need yeah, I need to hear this too.

Leah Sax:
If we are sat listening to this in the kitchen or in the car, but other places are available to listen to the podcast.

Caz Dodds:
So kitchen or car, Ok, got it.Yeah. Two places.

Adam Curtis:
Because if you’re not there now, move.

Leah Sax:
It Just because I do most of my podcast listening like on the route to gigs or clearly making cups of coffee in the kitchen. So that’s what. Anyway, back on point. Have you got any final tips for us to think I’m preaching to myself as well again to take our evangelism journey one step further? How can we push ourselves out of our comfort zone?

Caz Dodds:
The thing for me is about Seeing evangelism in the context of just a life, you know, so it’s not like something that I do that I just kind of right now this afternoon, I’m going to do some evangelism. Not that there’s anything wrong with, say, like, you know, street evangelism, strangers or doorknocking or anything. I think that’s great and important because not everyone knows a Christian, but just seeing sharing Jesus as just part of our life, part of what we’re doing and in all things, thinking about the people that we know, that we love, how we could point them to the truth and goodness of Jesus. That’s something that we want to be thinking about with our Christian friends and with people who aren’t Christians and Keiran And I have just been thinking recently, actually, when we first moved into this area, we felt very kind of proactive about building up relationships with our neighbours and that sort of thing. And actually, now we need to be thinking, OK, well, what’s the next thing like? How could we show them more of the truth and goodness of of Jesus? And I suppose that’s probably like a healthy question for us all to ask and the various relationships that we have. How could I show them more of that? And that won’t always be Can I share this bit of the Bible that I was reading this morning? Although sometimes it might be. It might be other things that example or model something of God’s generosity that we can pass that on. But we always want to be thinking, how can I be showing more of the truth, and goodness of Jesus to others? And one kind of thing that I think I’m quite weary of kind of how to’s on evangelism you see this thing and then you get them to ask that thing and then you say this thing, largely because I just forget, like, I find it really hard to keep those sorts of methods. Or whatever.

Leah Sax:
And frequently, the question they’re asking is not the question they’re asking, there’s an issue behind the issue. Yes, there would be a different spiritual thing at work and those things can be quite formulaic.

Caz Dodds:
Yeah, exactly. And I just find it quite hard to think about it in those sorts of formulaic is the right the right word. We want to love people and take each opportunity to talk about Jesus. And one one thing that I would say in terms of like an approach would be that it’s great to bring people into a community of Christians. Big thing for me would just be to keep praying for opportunities to each day, be thinking, who could I be encouraging to put their trust in Jesus?

Leah Sax:
Yeah, and you’re so right. It is so important just to keep praying and to keep thinking bigger because God is bigger than we can even begin to comprehend. And we tend to make things so much smaller, but we should be praying bigger as well.

Caz Dodds:
Yeah, and that’s a very helpful way to think about God is bigger. He is bigger than us, you know? And again, it’s just I think the more that we take, the kind of emphasis off us and what we’re doing and on to God and who he is like, That’s the best, isn’t it? So we’re praying that we would be good evangelists, absolutely. But we’re also praying that Jesus would be glorified, that he’d be known and that he would be opening up blind eyes.

Adam Curtis:
Hal way through that podcast, I realised that I wasn’t actually saying very much, and I was I realised I’m just listening to Caz and Leah, have this wonderful conversation, which is just so helpful and it was just so helpful. But just thinking through why do we want to share Jesus and talk about Jesus? And Oh, it’s because God is worthy, yeah. And motivation was like a Amen. That is the motivation we worship and we serve an amazing God. And actually, everyone needs to know that he impacts all of reality and he impacts every person and everyone needs to hear and experience.

Leah Sax:
I mean, I just so enjoy speaking to Caz. She has such wisdom and such a genuine heart for evangelism. I was also quite convicted about that phrase. I kind of made up on the spot the proactive preparedness because it does suggest some initiative like you have to have thought things through before conversations actually happen. I was also kind of struck by the the split nature, the duality of when you are speaking the truth to others, you are also preaching to yourself. You are speaking truth to yourself and you yourself are getting encouraged as well as a spirit working through you and bringing the truth to others.

Adam Curtis:
Yeah, preparedness. Yeah, there is a motivation. I want my friends and family to know Jesus I’m going to be praying for them, and I’m actually going to think about how am I going to speak to them? Why does it always have to be like on the spot spur of the moment thing? Why can’t I actually have done some thinking and reading and pondering and praying and meditating on these things that we’re going to talk about? That’s yeah, go and be prepared.

Leah Sax:
Were you totally will end up being pushed out of our comfort zones, which is actually such a good thing. We need to have kind of that equipped-ness-ness I’m doing all of my words today to be ready to love, to be ready, to give an answer, to be bold, to love.

Leah Sax:
We always like to ask our guests a surprise bonus question, and this season our question is who is the person who has encouraged you most in your faith?

Caz Dodds:
Yeah, different people at different stages of life that you know, guys just used so many different people. So when we were talking there about me first becoming a Christian in particular school friends who invited me along something and then I think, well, hold on a minute. There was another school friend who had been a wonderful, beautiful friend to me for years, who lived out commitment to Jesus, regularly spoke about him and somehow had put together that actually, you know, she was thinking of another school friends when we were travelling somewhere and she I remember her actually drawing like a little picture of us and God being separated and drew a cross in the middle. And I never kind of like tie that into my story of how I became a Christian. And yet, you know, God put those people there preparing me to put my trust in him. I do often think of the women who who read the Bible with me at university. Patasha, I kind of she shared her life and the gospel with me and the kind of lasting impact that had the kind of like foundations that that set for me. When I think about this subject, we’re talking about today about sharing Jesus people. I think of my brother in law who just and everything he does, people he knows are people he doesn’t seeks to point people to to Jesus. And that’s all borne out of a real conviction that Jesus true and good. That’s not fair as I should choose one person, but.

Adam Curtis:
That’s okay!

Caz Dodds:
There’s all these people who I’m very grateful to God for.

Leah Sax:
Thank you so much to Caz Dodds for being our guest on episode seven of Delight Podcast, we can’t wait to be with you again next week for episode eight, and we’ll be exploring the topic of friendship with a wonderful Sara Snow. Do you please join us. This is Adam and Leah delightfully signing off. Bye

Adam Curtis:
Bye