TRANSCRIPT Episode 13: Relationships – together for Jesus

Leah Sax:
Hello and welcome to episode 13 of Delight Podcast. I am Leah Sax and this is the Reverend Adam Curtis.

Adam Curtis:
Thank you Leah finally showing me the respect that I deserve. Well. In today’s episode, we’re going to be launching into the topic of romantic relationships. Now, romantic relationships are a huge part of life, and so we want to honour that by having an episode on it. But we also do want to acknowledge that many people are single or will be single again, and that singleness is a beautiful thing. Now both Leah and I are single.

Adam Curtis:
And if you like the sound of our voices that we’ll be leaving our notes and numbers in the show notes.

Leah Sax:
No, we Won’t.

Leah Sax:
Oh, sorry. That’s me now again, isn’t it? Today, our guests are Simon and Tree Pedley. Simon is the associate Vicar at St Michael’s Fulwell and Tree is a radiotherapy physicist. They are married, which is helpful for today’s topic and have two lovely children. They live in south west London in Teddington.

Adam Curtis:
Our guests today, We’ve got Tree and Simon. Hello.

Simon Pedley:
Hello.

Tree Pedley:
Hey.

Simon Pedley:
Great to see you.

Adam Curtis:
Oh, great to have you guys on the show. Before we delve into about how you guys came to know the Lord Jesus. Can you just tell us a little bit about yourselves?

Tree Pedley:
I am sort of a part time stay at home mum and a part time radiotherapy physicist for a private hospital in central London.

Simon Pedley:
We’re down in zone six on the sort of bitter edges of London. The kind of air is thin.

Adam Curtis:
The air is clean.

Leah Sax:
I’m a zone five person. I didn’t realise zone six existed.

Simon Pedley:
We’re in Teddington. We’re part of a wonderful church called St Michael’s down here.

Adam Curtis:
Oh, amazing. And how did. How did you two meet?

Tree Pedley:
Oh, so we met at university, and Simon lived next door to me in halls. I have to admit, I do. Like when I first saw him, I was like, Oh, he’s rather a nice looking chap.

Adam Curtis:
You know what? That’s a positive. You have to admit.

Simon Pedley:
Yeah, I shall stay silent.

Tree Pedley:
But then at the time he had at the time he had a girlfriend. So then it was kind of like, ooh, safe space friend. That was quite nice. But actually what kind of drew me to him was actually being quite a young, immature Christian. I kind of turned up to London and went, I don’t know where to go to church. When I heard that the guy next door had gone to church, I was like, Oh, take me with you. And he did. And so we began to be friends, going to the same church, which is great and.

Adam Curtis:
Amazing, you know, on an episode about romantic relationships. I’m glad we got to start with that point. Okay. So that’s that’s how you guys met. How many years have you been married?

Simon Pedley:
We had out, you know, I believe this year, 20th anniversary. Wow. And we had it during the week that we had COVID a couple of weeks ago. That was a really lovely Celebration too.

Leah Sax:
And you got to spend it having to be together.

Simon Pedley:
Yeah, that’s right. We’ll do something nice later in the year.

Tree Pedley:
So romantic, coughing and sneezing, over each toerh.

Leah Sax:
Also, I feel, because I think Simon just gave it away. I do actually know Simon and Tree, Adam.

Adam Curtis:
Oh, of course. How’d you guys know? The wonderful Leah.

Simon Pedley:
We were for about four wonderful years at the same church together down in Christ Church, Mayfair. Very, very good friends while we were there, and such good friends that we asked Leah to be godmother to our little girl. So, yeah, very, very lovely friendship.

Leah Sax:
And so when we thought about this topic, I thought, I’m going to ask Simon and Tree. So once more on Delight Podcast we have invited our wonderful godly friend To talk about the Bible.

Adam Curtis:
Yeah, I do praise the Lord that the Lord gave us wonderfully godly friends on this podcast that have been a real dive.

Simon Pedley:
Yeah, that’s great.

Adam Curtis:
Oh, wonderful. Okay, so that’s how you guys met. We love i Now, to hear how you met the Lord Jesus. Tree, can we can we start with you? Tell us your tale. How did you come to know Jesus?

Tree Pedley:
Okay, so I come from a non-Christian family, but my parents worked really hard to put me through a private school, which just happened to be a Christian school. So they did like an assembly every morning. Most of the time I didn’t really listen. I just sat there twiddling my thumbs for like a good 15, 20 minutes. But then were I do remember there was this one particular assembly where person talking was saying how like, Oh, you mustn’t wait till you’re really old to become a Christian because you could get hit by a bus tomorrow and die. And I remember Thinking, woah. You see, that was my secret plan actually, was to, you know, have fun, have an exciting life. And then kind of like when I got really old and near death, I’d be like, Yes, I’ll become a Christian and then I can not go to hell. But yeah, I was like, Oh, no. So like, I think I was about maybe eight or nine at the time. And I just remember being absolutely terrified and I was like, I could get hit by a bus and then die and go to hell. Thing is, a) I wasn’t allowed out by myself because I was like eight and b) didn’t live anywhere near a bus route. So I don’t know quite how that would have happened. But it was enough, though, to kind of put the fear of like hell in my in my mind. And so actually I was thinking, I’ve got to pray this prayer. I’ve got to go and say, oh, yes, I’ll accept Jesus and trust him. And because he’s died for me and he’s going to save me. So that’s all I started with is like really simple knowledge of that. And the Lord has been so gracious over the years and sort of like taught me more, being that young and from a non Christian family, I wasn’t allowed to go to church. All I really had was my Christian union school, which kind of like was helpful for me at the time. It was mostly about I have to be doing the right things, I have to be good, I have to be reading my Bible, I have to be praying.

Tree Pedley:
And it was all about kind of like what I did. So I didn’t really understand that what the true dynamic was. And it was only when I was like my sort of early sixth form that a friend of mine who was a Christian took me to one of those random tents in a field where there was a lady who was kind of she was preaching about God’s love and she was talking about why do you have like a cross around your neck? And I was like, Oh, yes, because it’s to show that I’m Christian, just like, do you realise it’s an instrument to torture? And then she went on. Talk about God’s love and how much Jesus loved us so much that he died for us. And I just remember kind of like tears pouring down my face. And that’s when I really understood kind of what Jesus had done for me. I still would have said like, you know, very immature still, but just kind of starting to get glimpses of kind of what God and Jesus really have done for us. Got to university. Simon took me to his church, which is amazing. But I got to sort of like hear how important the Bible was. So again, before I was just like just reading the Bible because it’s something you have to do but not really understanding it. And so it was great when we started to go into like proper sort of Bible studies and being taught to read the Bible for yourself. I’m still learning.

Adam Curtis:
Aren’t we all? Aren’t we all?

Simon Pedley:
Exactly.

Tree Pedley:
I think there was a one point actually, where I did feel a bit like all my friends at my church were had these amazing experiences and I wasn’t having any of them. And that was hard for me at the time because I just sort of felt, you know, am I not godly enough? Am I not, not good enough Christian? But then, amazingly, God led me to a Bible study group where we were learning about how actually it’s just that cold, hard fact in the Bible that Jesus is the one who died for us, and he’s the one who did everything for us. And it’s not what I do that makes me a Christian. It’s what he’s done for me.

Adam Curtis:
And Simon, What about you? What’s your your story?

Simon Pedley:
I mean, very different in lots of ways. My parents, lovely parents, both Christians. I think from the very earliest days of life, I as soon as I could sort of think and speak, they were telling me about Jesus. And so I remember from right at the beginning really loving the fact that God existed, that Jesus loved me, that he died on the cross for my sins. All of that was sort of part of growing up. But then I think for me, the big time of searching came as a teenager. You know, you get to that point where you think, I can’t just inherit my parents beliefs. It’s got to be something I think through for myself. You know, lots of people around the world don’t believe the same things as mum and dad. That’s not good enough to just have inherited beliefs. Spent quite a few years as a teenager. Really not sure and searching. I don’t think anyone knew that about me, particularly because I was still going to church, still looked like this kind of dutiful Christian. But I was very, very uncertain about it all. And then some fantastic things that God just very generously brought into my life. There was a sort of mission team that came to our town and did events in all the schools and did events at the church. And it was it was cool and that was great. And then the thing that really hit home was a service at the church, and the talk was more aimed at the adults than the kids, but it was looking at all the different reasons to believe in the Gospels that Jesus rose from the dead. Yeah, that he really did rise. And I remember sitting at the back as this kind of slightly grumpy teenager tuning into this talk and thinking, Do you know what? I am convinced that this is true. I’ve spent the last few years not convinced that God exists, but completely convinced that Jesus rose from the dead. How on earth. Can it possibly make sense. To kind of. Think Jesus rose from the dead and not think God existed? So I had this kind of dull moment at that and a number of other things that God very kindly took me through showed me that there are really solid reasons to believe.

Adam Curtis:
What a spiritual growth sort of look like while together you’ve been walking with the Lord.

Simon Pedley:
We’ve wanted to talk about our relationship with God all the time and make it a big part of our conversation and how we make decisions and and all of that. And we’ve wanted to encourage each other to be properly involved in church, you know, long before I was ever on the staff or anything like that, not just passengers in a church, but really part of it, you know, make it the default thing you do on a Sunday, make it the fixture in life that everything else sort of fits around in a way, because then God is first and you’re listening to him every week and being shaped by him.

Tree Pedley:
And I think because we we trusted each other and that we both knew that we kind of each other, loved the Lord, there was one situation where we were going to a church where separately we’d both been feeling maybe it wasn’t quite right. And then just one day we sort of talked about it and we both realised that both of us were feeling the same way and that maybe we should decide to go to a different church, which had sort of a slightly different angle on Bible teaching. I think it was good to kind of that. We kind of felt like we could have talked about that and sort of not worried about what the other would think.

Adam Curtis:
And I think it’s really helpful with the idea of, yeah, coming things together and talking it through together and working out together. There’s a great strength, isn’t there? You know, being able to to process our worries and our concerns as a team and as a unit.

Leah Sax:
Hi Delight Podcast family did you know you can now rate us on Spotify? We’d love for you to do so. It takes just one click or tap. Liking, sharing and subscribing really does bring Delight Podcast to new ears. So thank you for doing that. You can check out our website at Delight Podcast. There you can find transcripts of each episode, more detailed show notes and the latest blog by Adam on relationships.

Leah Sax:
Never has the question. Relationship status had so many possible answers and been so readily available for all to see and have a nose about it. Having a partner is frequently seen as a sign of completing adult life as the line from the tune Valerie, “I hope you’ll find the right man who’ll fix it for you” has magically solved every part of life. And yet side by side, so many see marriage as just a piece of paper. Just be true to yourself or one step further. You don’t need anyone. Just be you. So to start with a small question, Simon. Do you need a romantic relationship to be complete in life?

Simon Pedley:
No, you do not. Did I say that strongly enough? You really don’t. Because, I mean, that view is responsible for making so many people unnecessarily miserable. People end up unhappily single because they think it’s impossible to be content without a relationship or unhappily married or unhappily in a relationship because they’ve sort of felt they needed to start something that wasn’t right. You can totally understand how people find themselves thinking, How can I be complete or content without romance in my life or without sex in my life? Or for some without children? And it’s not wrong to to long for those things, they’re good things. I don’t want to downplay how painful some people’s experience of longing for those things can be. Here’s a sort of dramatic statement. God purpose for romance and sex and children isn’t first and foremost for our satisfaction and fulfilment.

Adam Curtis:
Oh, that is dramatic.

Simon Pedley:
Which one bit of a bit of a shock. A bit of a shock. I mean, that is pushed on us by Hollywood and everything that we watch and listen to in songs. If you watch a rom com, that picture is so often pushed of you’re unhappy and singleness, and then the resolution is that you become happy in a relationship. Even other kinds of films know you might be watching an action film. There’s a guy and a girl and they save the day. And at the end, what do they do? Well, it seems natural that they kiss and go off into.The sunset, because Of course they do. Because that’s what you need to do to complete the story so people can watch films like that and just sort of be left thinking, well, that’s clearly what I need. And we can actually reinforce that by mistake sometimes in society and in church. The impression is often, given that marriage is the goal and singleness is a problem to fix. So you hear people quietly expressing the opinion. Wouldn’t it be lovely if they met someone. One of the massive problems? I think sometimes in society, sometimes in church, is that friendship isn’t valid enough and we love doing podcasts. The recent episode with Sara. It’s easy for people to long for a romantic relationship because they long for companionship. But friendships can be fabulously deep and wonderfully committed and lifelong, and marriage actually isn’t and shouldn’t be the answer to loneliness. Despite what Hollywood tells us, marriage has a sort of God given purpose, but it’s not there to cure us of our loneliness and to make us kind of complete and fulfilled.

Adam Curtis:
I just think that’s so, so liberating. The problem is if you do make sex, relationships, children, your bill and your end, or in your purpose in life, actually, if you struggle in your sex life, your relationship, or having or having children or you have all those things are not going as well as you want them to go, then suddenly your purpose in life, you’ve failed. And actually it all crumbles. Where actually you’re like, Oh no, no. These aren’t my ultimate purpose in life. My ultimate purpose in life is to know the Lord God and to be in a relationship with him that actually we can enjoy the good things about sex, relationship and raising kids and acknowledge the hard things rather than resenting the hard things.

Leah Sax:
I like that you said that, like our goal in life is to have a relationship with the living God. I mean. So.That completely shifts the thinking, isn’t it, of what? Like what it means.

Simon Pedley:
So yeah, the chapter in the Bible that most hits this issue head on is actually 1 Corinthians 7, which is really key chapter and in written by Paul, who was single himself. And in that chapter he’s just massively positive about singleness and massively positive about marriage and saying singleness and marriage are both good. They’re both God given ways to live. They both have their sort of advantages and disadvantages. And one of the things that he argues in that chapter is that in marriage, though, it is a wonderful thing, you have a very time consuming commitment to your spouse, maybe to your kids if you have kids and you just don’t have the same kind of freedom and time that comes with singleness. So things like serving in church or investing in friendships has to take a different shape. There’s more constraints on your time and your energy and your freedom, and that’s just realistic about life in a in a relationship. We’ve got to say loads of key people in the Bible were saying. We’ve mentioned Paul the Apostle. What about Jesus? Jesus himself? I mean, do we really want to say that Jesus was an incomplete human being? You know, do we want to argue that God came into the world this incredible miracle of the incarnation, but he somehow didn’t quite make it all the way to becoming a complete human being? That’s that’s just not the case. What actually completes us is our relationship with God, where we are all made for that. The Bible begins with our relationship with him, and it’s all about how that relationship is broken and then gets fixed by Jesus. And without Jesus, we’re all fallen and sinful and insecure and unsatisfied and lacking contentment and all that. The wedding at the end of the Bible, the fantastic divine wedding between Jesus and the church, that is where true fulfilment and lasting contentment is going to be found. And that is the one that you don’t want to miss.

Leah Sax:
So I guess that does then beg the question what would you say the purpose of romantic relationships is then?

Tree Pedley:
Initially, I think I would have thought it’s that we propagate as a species and don’t die out. But then.

Leah Sax:
Hello Scientist.

Tree Pedley:
It’s scientific! In the Bible. It kind of talks about how like this whole romantic relationship, like marriage is meant to kind of like be a mirror of what Christ and the church is like, isn’t it? And certainly I have noticed it over the years. Simon has had some make some big choices that were quite sacrificial to him in order to keep me happy. And equally, I’ve also had to give up some things to make our relationship work. So I think it’s love for each other that is full of sacrifice, isn’t it?

Simon Pedley:
The purpose of everything in life is to glorify God. That’s the Christian view of all of life. It’s the Bible’s view of relationships as well. It’s not a kind of zone of independence from God. There’s tons of teaching in the Bible about marriage and relationships because that part of life is for him as well. I mean, the big picture is that you only really see what marriage is for when you connect it to what the Bible talks about is the big marriage between God and his people. The Bible starts with marriage. You’ve got Adam and Eve in Genesis, and it finishes with a marriage as well. Right at the end of the Book of Revelation, you get this picture of an amazing, beautiful wedding of God and his people. Earthly marriage is meant to be a kind of lived picture of this big marriage between God and his people. And Ephesians 5:32 underlines that Paul’s talking about a marriage between a husband and a wife, but he then says, But I’m talking about Christ and the church. It’s a really beautiful thing to realise that because when you think about what characterises God’s relationship with us, it’s things like unconditional love and grace and forgiveness. And when you realise that as a married couple you’re living a picture of that that pours resources into your relationship, the gospel pours love and grace and forgiveness into your relationship, because that is what God’s relationship with us is like. It’s a really wonderful thing.

Leah Sax:
Can we just dig a little deeper into what Genesis? The very beginning of the Bible. We talked about Adam and Eve, what that teaches us, because it does seem like a very long way to go back when we’re talking about romantic relationship.

Simon Pedley:
Yeah, it does. It does. Right at the beginning of the Bible, right at the beginning of human history. I think it gives fantastic, really practical purposes for a relationship for getting married. I came up with three when I was thinking about this. Well, I think you get a new family, a new unity, and maybe new babies. Maybe. In Genesis 2:24, it says a man leaves his father and his mother and his united to his wife, which I think means a married couple is a new family. It’s a new sort of family unit. It’s a kind of independent, new place of commitment and trust and safety for each other and potentially for children if children come along. And then the same verse 2:24 talks about they become one flesh, which is a really powerful image. I mean, you don’t literally become one person. You’re not going to be absorbed into into each other. You’re united in a really deep, really profound and permanent way. It’s about sex, but it’s more than that as well. You know how in Genesis 3, because of sin, Adam and Eve have to be clothed and they can’t go around the world naked because trust is gone and brokenness is damaged Relationships. Within marriage, you get this kind of zone of trust and commitment created where you can be naked together. You can trust each other, and you’re sort of commanded to love and trust each other with your life and your body in a way that can’t and mustn’t be true of of other relationships. And within marriage, you try and sort of recreate something of the intimacy and the trust that was lost in Genesis 3. And that is both wonderful and surprisingly complicated or maybe not surprising given we’re fallen human beings with sins and hang ups and foibles and psychological weaknesses. And. Bodily imperfections and all all the stuff that makes it different and. Quite interesting, but.

Adam Curtis:
You’re really selling the human experience.

Simon Pedley:
It’s wonderful, but it’s complicated. And then the third thing is maybe a new baby. So Genesis 1:28 be fruitful and increase in number. Not every marriage will have children. Marriage is about more than children, but marriage is designed to potentially be the place for that. It’s so practical Genesis, much more than you might think.

Leah Sax:
Okay, so we’ve seen what the Bible says about the purpose of Relationships. Tree What then should we be looking for in a potential spouse or a partner?

Tree Pedley:
It’s quite a subjective question, isn’t it? Because I guess it depends on the person themselves. But I think most importantly it would be you should look for a person who loves God passionately. And I think stuff after that is kind of like your preference. I mean, for me, I think I would look for somebody who I would feel comfortable being myself with because when you get married, all these things are going to come out of the woodwork. And if you kind of are holding things back and then your partner finds out something about you, you’d be like, Oh gosh, it’s one of those things like if you don’t feel comfortable, say, I don’t know, can I say this out loud, farting in front of the other person? I’m going to have to hold it In for. The duration of your marriage, at which point you might spontaneously combust.

Leah Sax:
I’m enjoying this list. So, number one, somebody who loves Jesus. And number two, you’re comfortable, someone you are releasing wind in front of.

Tree Pedley:
It’s best to like, give it, you know, lay it all out there so that they know exactly what you’re like from the get go.

Leah Sax:
Because so somebody you’re.

Simon Pedley:
You’re hilarious.

Leah Sax:
Being Honest with.

Tree Pedley:
And I just say it’s me who’s flatulent, by the way. I mean.

Simon Pedley:
It’s so it’s so kind. I think we both contribute to it.

Leah Sax:
I mean, I love this. It’s not why I thought this conversation was going. That’s really helpful.

Simon Pedley:
You had.No idea what you were going to end up with.

Leah Sax:
Yeah, I love it.

Adam Curtis:
Can we push it into that first thing you said to be a God lover? A Jesus lover? Some people might be like, But why? Like that person in my office, a person in my gym? Like I get on with them relationally? We do. Well, they respect my faith. Why this individual being a lover of Jesus, Why is that so important?

Simon Pedley:
Yeah, I was having a walk with a friend yesterday and I asked what I should say in answer to this question and he said, You want someone who’s passionate about God, passionate about you, and passionate about something else. And he said, the first two answers are biblical in the last one is just. Fun, you know. Make sure it’s somebody who has interests.But that’s Probably not even biblical Advice. But passionate about God. I mean, back to 1 Corinthians 7, the end of it just has a few lines about who you’re free to marry, and it says they must belong to the Lord. If you’re following Jesus, you’ve got to take that really seriously. If the purpose of marriage is for glorifying God, then someone who doesn’t want to glorify God and doesn’t see life in those terms actually shouldn’t be on our radar at all as a potential romantic partner. And I know that can feel like really hard advice. You know what if what if you really fancy them? Well, actually, fancying somebody should never be the only reason for starting a romance. It’s really dangerous to just latch on to somebody just because we fancy them. You might think, you know, but they were really close friends. Well, that’s great, but they can stay a close friend. We need to be an ambassador for Jesus in our in our friendships and need to be totally clear that romance is off the menu. If the other person is not someone who wants to spend their life glorifying God, even if the other person is pushing for it. I know, I know. These circumstances can be hard and difficult to navigate, but if you’re going to serve God with the rest of your life and that is what we should long for, if if we’re following Jesus, then top of the list is finding someone who who’s going to be a partner with us in that, who wants to glorify God with you. He’s going to commit with you to being part of a church and serving wholeheartedly there. Who’s going to want to make the really big decisions and the small decisions in life for the Lord, not just for ourselves? And who’s going to want to, if you have children, to bring them up, to know Jesus, to know his love and his grace. So it’s so important to realise that you want somebody who’s passionate about God.

Tree Pedley:
That you’ll save yourself a lot of heartache if that’s the first thing you look for.

Leah Sax:
So how can you and your your spouse glorify God together? Like, what does that look like? What it even mean to glorify God in that sense?

Simon Pedley:
I mean, you know, we’re called to glorify God with everything in life. It’s the whole of life. It’s not just bits of it. And so in one sense, you want to get into God’s Word together and see how it teaches us to glorify God with every single thing that we do, your relationship with each other and then with your money. Your children with sex, with showing hospitality, with loving neighbours, with loving enemies, you know, all the different things that the Bible teaches. You just need to sort of apply it into marriage and kind of live that out together. But in marriage, you have this kind of special authorised access into each other’s lives to kind of help each other grow in holiness, which is, you know, it’s kind of a strange and wonderful thing. Ephesians 5, there’s this fabulous bit in verses 26 and 27 that talk about how within marriage, if you if you love each other the way Jesus loved and it’s particularly addressing husbands at this point, it says Jesus died to make us holy, cleansing us and washing us and says love in marriage can be like that. We should care about each other’s growth in holiness and sort of make that part of our relationship, part of what we talk about, how we want to grow.

Leah Sax:
What does that look like for you to help Simon grow in His Holiness?

Tree Pedley:
I guess it’s like encouraging him. Being a vicar, There’s a lot going on. It’s quite emotionally overwhelming. He knows that he can come home to me and he can just say anything he likes, and I won’t judge him. And then we can like, you know, if there’s tough things, we can pray together.

Leah Sax:
You’ve painted this really beautiful picture of Emotional love, of commitment, of this God created relationship and intention. What happens if you’re a new Christian or you’re someone who’s married to a non-Christian? What wisdom would you give to them? We’ve talked about two believers who are together, but that is just not the reality for a lot of people. What wisdom would you have for them?

Simon Pedley:
The great thing is there’s two places in the Bible that actually specifically address that situation. I think they’re really helpful and encouraging verses because they are realistic about the challenges, but they all say massively encouraging about what can happen. One is 1 Corinthians 7. Again, there’s such a key chapter. In that Chapter. There’s this little section in the middle verses 12 to 16 which talks about this. If you read those verses, what comes out number one is stay in the marriage. It’s a real marriage. It’s not something that God despises, that you’re in it, and you can be fully committed to to your marriage knowing that God blesses that decision, that that you can honour him in that. What also comes out is that your wife or your husband and children, if you have them, they get to hear the gospel. They get to live with somebody who knows Jesus. And that’s a really precious thing and an amazing opportunity. Yeah, but it is it is also realistic. It acknowledges that there can be tensions. It talks about the possibility that in the worst case, if one person in a marriage becomes a Christian, the non-Christian might decide to leave. That’s that’s the worst scenario. Why might that happen? I mean, I guess as a Christian, you want to be honouring God with your decisions. You want to take kids to church, you want to serve at a church and give some of your money to it. And sometimes that can cause real difficulty and real tension. So it is complex and sometimes negotiating those kind of things just isn’t easy and sometimes gets harder and harder. And Paul is clear that your first duty is to the Lord. Sadly, if that worst case thing does happen, sad as that is, you don’t need to feel guilty about that if you’ve honoured the Lord for that as well as 1 Corinthians 7, there’s 1 Peter 3 the first couple of verses, which gives us a really encouraging possibility for somebody who’s in a marriage with a non-Christian because it talks about how your husband or wife who doesn’t believe might be won over without words, it says by your behaviour when they see the beauty and reverence of your life, which is a lovely description, I think.

Simon Pedley:
And in other words, when you become a Christian, what your spouse should start to see is hopefully some really attractive changes in you because you’ll be growing to be more like Jesus. You’ll be growing in the fruit of the spirit. Love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. That could be that should be a really wonderful experience. It should be nicer, better for them to be married to a Christian than someone who who isn’t a more lovely thing once you’ve started following Jesus than before. And maybe those verses kind of hold out this hope that maybe God will use that to win them over one day. Yeah. Be patient. Trust God, follow Jesus. Play the long game in your relationship for that. Don’t sort of try and force it and push it and be awkward and difficult. It could take years or decades. You might not even see the fruits of that before heaven. But. But your life are following Jesus and loving your husband or wife will be used by God and it will be worth it.

Adam Curtis:
Yeah. I asked a couple at church. The wife had been a Christian for a while. She was married to a non-Christian guy. Just what she would say on this podcast and she just laughed and she would just say, I tell him to pray, pray, and pray and pray. And that’s what she did. She prayed and prayed and prayed and prayed and praise the Lord. We had his baptism last last term.

Simon Pedley:
Oh, that’s okay. That’s brilliant.

Adam Curtis:
But it’s interesting. It’s such a complex sort of area, because then very well there’ll be people listening who might be in a long term relationship with someone who’s not a Christian and and you’re not married and maybe you’ve built a real life together. And my advice be to that person, who’s become a Christian in a relationship with someone who’s not would be. If you’re not married, then marriage is a beautiful creation by the Lord and it is a place of blessing and of feeling The Lord’s smile. And so I would just just be encouraging you to walk head towards marriage. And it might be that happens quite quickly or it might be that takes a bit of time, but marriage is beautiful and it’s from the Lord. So I’d head towards it. And I do know a couple, one of them became became a Christian at the time that they wanted to get their children baptised and so they got their their child baptised. This woman had become a Christian, so she now wanted to get married as well. And so after the kids baptism, they hadn’t told any of the family. At the very end of the service, the vicar just stood up and was like, Well, thank you everyone for coming to the baptism. And so in 15 minutes this couple are now going to get married. So we’ll have a little break and then you’re all back in there.

Simon Pedley:
Oh, that’s amazing.

Adam Curtis:
Marriage is this beautiful thing. So it might be quick, might take a while, but head towards marriage.

Leah Sax:
I love that language, Adam. You’re using of beauty and a beautiful gift. And marriage is beautiful. But is marriage always beautiful? Is it always wonderful? Sunshine and flowers are the difficulties. I mean, I presume there are. And what do you do? What’s a biblical way of responding to those difficulties?

Tree Pedley:
Yeah, I totally agree that marriage isn’t always perfect. As in like there are moments I probably wanted to kill. Simon. Can we strike that?

Simon Pedley:
No, you’re not allowed to strike that.

Tree Pedley:
Some days I handle it very well. As in some days I’m like, I think of it as the way I can love Simon and serve him by turning a blind eye to all these misdemeanours and just picking up after him, Right?

Leah Sax:
Serving.

Tree Pedley:
Serving, Exactly. But there are days when I’ve had a bad day and I just have like a grown up tantrum, I think. So there was one day I just decided to go on strike completely and refused to cook dinner and just stomped around the house and then just sat upstairs by myself.

Simon Pedley:
And then I came home oblivious to all of This.

Tree Pedley:
Because he didn’t he didn’t read my mind. So again, communication is key. I should have just told him I was pretty miserable. But no, I expected him to know from my absence downstairs that there was something wrong. Yeah. So there are times when things don’t always go to plan and you get actually quite cross and angry with the other person. It’s the beauty of knowing God’s grace because you’ll actually think of all the times that we have just done so much wrong against God. He’s angry, obviously, but he has forgiven us. And actually when we when we’ve kind of come back to him and said, I’m really sorry, he’s welcomed us open arms times when I had my adult tantrums and then gone, I’m really sorry. Then just Simon and the kids just welcome me back. Yeah, it’s fine. We understand. And they were is so sweet about things like that. You know, when we sort of say to each other, Should we pray about this? That’s one of the times when actually it really hits. So if we’re both angry about something and we’re both arguing and we can’t figure out a way to kind of work it out, just one of us suggesting, should we pray about this? The other one goes, Oh yeah, that’s a really good idea wish I thought that one first. And then we kind of go, Yeah, we should pray. And then actually one to prayed. We’ve realised how much more the Lord has done for us and actually our disagreement was peanuts really so that just really helped.

Simon Pedley:
No, marriage is perfect. If you know a couple who appear perfect, that’s not true. You know. We know from the Bible that every single human being on the planet is sinful and faces temptations and sometimes gives in to them. And coming together in a marriage is bringing two sinners together. So you’re kind of adding complication to complication. And one of the beautiful things about marriage is not that it’s sort of plain sailing and easy. It’s that forgiveness and grace is possible and wonderful because of God. And actually sometimes when you’ve had a little falling out about something and then you recommit and you say, Actually, I’m really sorry about that, I didn’t want to have an argument. I really love you. You’re laying another foundation of that permanence. You’re laying another sort of layer of foundation of that unconditional love, because you’ve sort of proved to each other again that you’re not going to walk away because of difficulty. You’re going to come back together and love feels stronger and more wonderful sometimes. The other side of dealing with a problem and difficulty. That said, there are circumstances that that can break a marriage. And the Bible acknowledges that the Bible is so real about struggles and it’s real about the extremes of that as well. Things that can break a marriage include sexual unfaithfulness in an affair that doesn’t have to break a marriage. But it can. Jesus does kind of give a a get out clause really in that situation. If there is something awful like abuse that is dangerous. I’m not sort of talking the sort of low level ways that we use the word abuse these days, but real abusive abuse that is actually threatening to your your person, that can be a marriage ending thing. Get out of that. The Bible doesn’t call you to stay if you’re in danger. There are laws in the Old Testament, Exodus 21 that talk about somebody in a marriage who’s deprived of shelter and food and clothing and that person is free to leave and they don’t have to stay in that that relationship. So it’s important to not feel.

Adam Curtis:
It’s important not to. Feel trapped.

Simon Pedley:
Yeah.

Leah Sax:
How can single people love their brothers sisters in the church family who are married.

Tree Pedley:
Be friends with them? I think. I don’t know whether single people kind of think, Oh, you’re married and you’re very busy, therefore you won’t have any time for me. So they don’t get invited out to stuff. But I would just see you as a friend like any other friend. I don’t just want to have friends who are married to other people. I want friends who are single. I should think friends are friends. Right. And I have I don’t care what background they come from where the single or married. It’s just nice to have someone else to kind of communicate with and just.

Leah Sax:
And that is really helpful to hear as single person as me, as a single lady. Elo How can I love, me, Because I love you both. How as my as a sister to both of you, how can I love your relationship? Like, how can I support you both in that?

Simon Pedley:
One thing is just be really patient. With people who are married or who have families. Because, oh gosh, you know, I never knew what knackeredness was until children came along and all that kind of stuff. And I think sometimes I know we’ve got we’ve got single friends in church who sort of feel that they’ve asked a married couple if they want to meet up. And the married couple have said, oh, no, we can’t. At the moment, we’re really busy. And then the single people feel really discouraged about that and think, Oh, well, that’s that. They’re not interested, actually, they really are. They do want to hang out. It’s just life is really busy and really difficult to navigate and full of constraints. And so hanging out in each other’s homes in a way that is just lowers all the expectations is a fabulous thing because I think sometimes we can have this image of the dinner party that is, you know, you have to you have to have all the right things in place to have anybody around to your house. And I’ll never forget that was at our previous church, a single lady who popped over to I can’t remember it was do some paperwork or something like that. And we were in an absolute state. It was just after the kids got back from school. The house is in a mess. We never would have chosen that moment to invite anybody over, but it was lovely to see her. And she came in and then after a bit of chatting we said, Oh, we probably we’ve got no food in the house apart from some scrappy bits of pizza that are probably half gone off. But if you want to stay, stay. And she said, Oh, yes, please, I’d love to. And and she did. And we we had some food and then she said, This is what I want. I don’t want people to feel kind of under pressure to do some perfect thing before they can have me around. I just want to be part of your family. I want to pop in and enjoy life with you and hang out with your kids. And we loved it as well. And that’s really stuck with me.

Leah Sax:
What I love about all of that is, number one, this is being recorded before any of this season has been aired and episode ten is on hospitality. But that is just so helpful just to know that we can love each other and serve each other well and pray for each other. And it’s not like an either or, but we’re all a church family together, which I think is just so special and so wonderful.

Adam Curtis:
Can I just say that I want Tree and Simon to be my friends.

Leah Sax:
I’ll share them with you. It’s okay. I also. I mean, I love them for many reasons, but I love the fact they are very real and down to earth and they love Jesus, but they’re like, this is the reality of life. And in this podcast topic, this is the reality of what a biblical relationship looks like. And it’s not perfect, but it is a good gift. And as you said, a beautiful, good gift from the Lord.

Adam Curtis:
Hmm. Yeah, we just hit just so many sort of huge, huge topics which always require their own podcast. Yeah.

Leah Sax:
Yeah. I felt that.

Adam Curtis:
That idea that human marriage of a wife and a husband represents that eternal marriage of like the church and Jesus Christ. It’s like that is that is just like a huge image. And then when we think about, well, what does Jesus do for his bride? Oh, he gives his very life sacrificially, He dies to save her. And that is then meant to be embodied within human marriage. It’s just like, Oh, these themes alone are just massive.

Leah Sax:
They are massive. And yet it boils down to the everyday of the laundry and of going to church and serving together and of two sinners. Coming together and the goodness of that, but also just working the reality through that. But as we said at the beginning and so throughout and as we acknowledge as two single people, you don’t need a romantic relationship to be complete. There is a good gift because your life, no matter what your quote, relationship status is, is to glorify God. And that is a good and wonderful thing.

Adam Curtis:
Amen.

Leah Sax:
Simon and Tree. We like to ask our guests a, quote, surprise at the end of season three. Is it still a surprise bonus question? And this season’s bonus question is what are you most enjoying about God’s character at the moment?

Tree Pedley:
For me, it’s his patience. It’s taken me a while to get to the point where I think I feel I understand how salvation works and the beauty of it all. And he was very patient with me and I really appreciate that because I know he has that for other people too. So people I’d long to come to know him and they don’t seem anywhere near that right now. God is patient. He’s waiting, keep praying about that.

Simon Pedley:
I was recently thinking loads about God’s grace quite similar to his patience really. He’s called us into a relationship purely based on his generosity and his gift of Jesus for us and doesn’t demand anything from us in terms of scrubbing ourselves up before he accepts us. I just love the fact that that is what our relationship with him is based on.

Leah Sax:
Amen , Simon and Tree, thank you so much for being on Delight Podcast.

Simon Pedley:
Thank you for having us. It’s been such a joy.

Leah Sax:
Thank you so much to Simon and Trip Pedley for being our guest on episode 13 of Delight Podcast. And Adam, can you believe it? That season three wrapped? I can’t believe it. I know. Thank you so much for tuning in. And this is Adam and Leah, delightfully signing off. Bye bye bye.